NO PARK HUNTING ALLOWED!??!?;

[boogeyman]

boogeyman, as my reputation on T'net shows: I'm as brazen and ballsy non-skittish as they come. HOWEVER, I would still not employ the "in-your-face" defiance that you suggest. I do agree that you're not doing anything wrong (I too consider our hobby innocuous and harmless). However, I would NEVER subject myself to a debate of semantics over this. For 2 reasons:

1) They can say that the mere act of your target retrieval (no matter how you do it) constitutes "alter" "deface" "dig", etc.... Or can invoke the prohibitions on "harvest", "remove", "take", etc.... And let's be honest boogeyman, do you really think you're going to win that battle ? Yes I agree we do not fall afoul of those things. But just saying that if someone gets mad, you're going to look mighty silly trying to back-pedal away with that screwdriver or lesche in your hand. Because in THEIR mind's eyes, even if you eventually prove you'll "leave no trace", yet .... they will just think this opens the pandora's box for every other yahoo, that might not be so neat, to likewise go out there. Why subject yourself to this ?

2) Let's just say for a minute that you DID win this defiant "cite me" battle. Well guess what can then happen? They might just dream up a specific "no detecting" rule now, to close this loophole in wording.

So better that you don't swat hornet's nests, and pick lower traffic times when any potential busy-body isn't around, in the first place

Wow! Tom! That didn't take long. What if what if blah blah......... Guess I should've explained a little better. I'm not having a debate with these people, not starting a confrontation just responding by stating facts in a factual manner & tone of voice to when they step out of the boundary of their authority. There's no "that you DID win this defiant "cite me" battle." I have won over & over period no debate! My as you call it battle with the County of Orange, Ca. ended up with me $39,900 plus court costs etc richer. More & more these individuals feel they have more authority than they in fact have. The quickest cleanest way to end it is to put it into their head it's possibly going to cost them their job, their income etc. Sorry Tom I wouldn't suggest this to other Tneters if would lead them to harm. You're talking theory & what ifs. I'm talking facts actual experiences. That was the one instance he didn't just walk away. All the rest (over 20) ended up just walking off with a remark. Now that you mention it! I actually ended up being friends with one of these folks and was able to let her know the city was laying off in her dept. It affected my agency, so she could transfer thus saving her job. Respect works both ways.

Once again Tommy. Thanks for playing! Go back to skulking around the parks at night and walking on eggshells going oohhh don't want to upset anyone. If you're right and the law is on your side and you have a good grip on the law, stand up like a man and apply that knowledge!

You take care now & have yourself a wonderful day!

 

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[b3y0nd3r]

If the documentation of the local borough ordinances doesn't say anything about metal detecting, make a copy of the and keep it on you when you detect there. If someone comes by and starts to try to force you out, show them the document.

 

[RustyGold]

Show them the syringes and razor blades plus the trash you've collected to "save the children" and make our parks safer for everyone to enjoy?
I'm getting an Orange vest! OSHA approved of course.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Show them the syringes and razor blades plus the trash you've collected to "save the children"......

What do you do when the park employee you're trying this line on, says: That the object(s) you're showing them were doing no harm to anyone as long as they remain submerged beneath the ground.

Might work for sandboxes or beaches (sand), but won't work for turf.

 

[boogeyman]

What if what if what if. When you see the park employee approaching in the corner of your eye, start heading to the trash can and as he's talking to you start dumping your trash pouch, muttering something like "freaking animals leave junk everywhere" at least around here they end up saying nothing and start shooting the breeze with you. I've got cards from ALL the city park rangers here and they've kind of clued the city guys in that "I'm OK". But that goes against Tommys walk on eggshells don't talk to anyone don't ask anything or you'll make waves mantra. 99% of the time the park folks are cool! The 1% that over step their authority need to be called on it & I do! Most of the 1% turned out to be OK when challenged in a firm but respectful way. Everyone has a camera on their phone these days so when you dump your trash pouch, snap a photo! Helps a lot whether busy body or city worker confronts you and you show them 10 or 12 pics of "all the trash you've gotten out of here." One reason I like to dump my trash pouch in the city provided trash cans is when they dump them & see handfuls of junk, they associate that with detectorists, unless if their IQ was a half notch higher they'd trip over it. ALL & all with out all the what ifs you'll usually end up making some friends & get some leads. Sure beats sitting on TNet typing what ifs and checking what day it is and if it's too early to go detect that park.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

good post boogeyman

 

[boogeyman]

It's really simple. Parks employees are city employees they are non-sworn personel. For them to cite you, they have to have a sworn officer come and write the citation. Trust me if your cop shop up north is like every one down in so cal, that is a low priority call and your patrol officers probably have 8-10 calls backed up on their MDTs already. And the officer really doesn't want to write the cite because he has to take the paper & show up in court if you fight it. Down here if your cite went to court and you had to appear you lost pay. Ok, you've taken away the only tool the parks guy has - the threat of a citation. Situation de-escalated. The parks guy gets a little counsel from the officer & if he's smart a little respect for the detectorists. Skulking away not daring to say a word for fear of possibly opening a can of worms only makes the city employee more empowered even though he's out of his boundary of authority. So by standing up and as I said Respectfully and calmly telling him to go ahead & just write the cite catches him off guard and everyone goes home happy.

Take the time to go down to the city and request a paper copy of the rules & regs for the parks. Keep it in your truck or with your detecting gear where it's handy. If you run into trouble have them follow you over to your truck do something that'll catch em with their pants down pull out a soda & ask if they'd like one. Pull out your (around here) pamphlet and ask them to show that ordinance or statute. Ask them again if they're sure they wouldn't like a soda. One of two things are going to happen. They'll remember you & leave you alone, or sit & enjoy a soda with you and you've made a friend.


Not sure about California PC but according to the CVC an officer can only cite you for traffic infractions if they are in a marked unit and in full uniform. How many times have you seen city cops writing cites with no hat on? Ever see CHP writing cites without a hat? Sometimes you have to stand up and make waves to take the wind out of their sails!

BTW, I can tell you how to beat radar tickets 99.9% of the time.

Take care!!

 

[Deft Tones]

I'm with Boogyman. Give me a citation or GTFO!

 

[Deft Tones]

What do you do when the park employee you're trying this line on, says: That the object(s) you're showing them were doing no harm to anyone as long as they remain submerged beneath the ground.

Might work for sandboxes or beaches (sand), but won't work for turf.

Simple. Say they were surface finds.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Simple. Say they were surface finds.

Finally someone here with some balls and brains ! Although I still wouldn't go so far as say defiantly demand a ticket. Guess that means someone here is more brazen than I am ! haha

 

[Deft Tones]

Finally someone here with some balls and brains ! Although I still wouldn't go so far as say defiantly demand a ticket. Guess that means someone here is more brazen than I am ! haha

Flattering... and very debatable. In fact, I still carry traces of my wreckless youth; you just care more about repercussions. IMO.

 

[boogeyman]

Finally someone here with some balls and brains ! Although I still wouldn't go so far as say defiantly demand a ticket. Guess that means someone here is more brazen than I am ! haha

There's the key word "defiantly" There you're playing into their hand. As I said if you'd check further back. Your mannerisms and tone of voice need to be respectful and knowledgeable. Coming off with an aggressive posture "demanding" a ticket will probably get you one. If you calmly and respectfully come off with just go ahead and write the cite, and if you don't get the what the heck look, then add in the requests for their ID & physical address where they can be served. After that? To be honest I couldn't tell you, never got that far. They have always given up when I get adamant about their work address. TO BE SERVED!!!! Granted it's psychological but what would you think if a guy was calmly standing in front of you telling you you're probably gonna get fired or reprimanded at the least, make you miss work days sitting in court, then having the possibility of being sued civilly to boot knowing all you have is the threat of a ticket? What would you do in his shoes?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Flattering... and very debatable. In fact, I still carry traces of my wreckless youth; you just care more about repercussions. IMO.

haha, I lack any caution level whatsoever. But .... I will still not "swat hornets nest". And instead prefer to be invisible, when possible. But as to the places I'd be invisible at, I lack any risk assessment whatsoever. Hey, you aint gonna get seated, reales, and gold coins from sand boxes afterall, haha.

....Your mannerisms and tone of voice need to be respectful and knowledgeable. Coming off with an aggressive posture "demanding" a ticket will probably get you one...

Ok, now I understand. But I'd still be afraid it could just turn into a debate of semantics. On whether or not the act of retrieving (aka digging), would be said to fall afoul of "alter" and "deface" type verbiage. Naturally I'm of the opinion that we are not alterING anything. Of course. But I just don't want to enter into that debate with anyone, if I can help it. Hence, the less they see and think about it (standing in front of them debating), the better.

 

[Deft Tones]

There's the key word "defiantly" There you're playing into their hand. As I said if you'd check further back. Your mannerisms and tone of voice need to be respectful and knowledgeable. Coming off with an aggressive posture "demanding" a ticket will probably get you one. If you calmly and respectfully come off with just go ahead and write the cite, and if you don't get the what the heck look, then add in the requests for their ID & physical address where they can be served. After that? To be honest I couldn't tell you, never got that far. They have always given up when I get adamant about their work address. TO BE SERVED!!!! Granted it's psychological but what would you think if a guy was calmly standing in front of you telling you you're probably gonna get fired or reprimanded at the least, make you miss work days sitting in court, then having the possibility of being sued civilly to boot knowing all you have is the threat of a ticket? What would you do in his shoes?

I think Tom was referring to me. I was defiant to a park worker...was just sad how it played out - for him!

*actually he was not employed by the city... just construction worker doing work for the city.

 

[Deft Tones]

haha, I lack any caution level whatsoever. But .... I will still not "swat hornets nest". And instead prefer to be invisible, when possible. But as to the places I'd be invisible at, I lack any risk assessment whatsoever. Hey, you aint gonna get seated, reales, and gold coins from sand boxes afterall, haha.

Touche'.

When I was 8-10 I wanted to be a ninja...obsessed with it. We could sneak into your spots and cherry-pick those coins. I'd let you keep all my finds, the treasure would just be joking, arguing and talking about 'tecting.