Odd Couple or Perfect Couple?

[Steve Herschbach]

Can't wait to get these two to the beach!

 

[lookindown]

Expensive couple.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Steve, you got drunk and started taking naked pictures of all your machines again didn't you?!

 

[DrunkBrother]

i bet 10$ on ctx3030 that the %of "keepers" will be way higher than with Extreme.
by "keepers" i mean finds that are not rubbish and something among coins, keys,sinkers etc, while "rubbish" are beer tops, bobby pins, foil and so on.

Oh yes, and i mean that both machines will be used in same beach conditions, for the same duration of the hunts (lets say 2 hours along side) ,
and then % is compared from the total of recovered items per detector

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Terry, when I meet a pair of beach beauties like these I have been known to do stupid things!

 

[Steve Herschbach]

i bet 10$ on ctx3030 that the %of "keepers" will be way higher than with Extreme.
by "keepers" i mean finds that are not rubbish and something among coins, keys,sinkers etc, while "rubbish" are beer tops, bobby pins, foil and so on.

Oh yes, and i mean that both machines will be used in same beach conditions, for the same duration of the hunts (lets say 2 hours along side) ,
and then % is compared from the total of recovered items per detector

I'm not taking that bet! Luckily not really an issue for me.

 

[search and recovery]

Steve, post your results with the two machines. I am sure many on this site would like to know how the two machines compare beach hunting. I am thinking they will be fairly equal on gold jewelry items.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

It is not a contest for me. I like both for the detecting I do. I lean PI so will be using the ATX most of the time, especially mask and snorkel work. I am less excited about getting the CTX into heavy surf so will probably use it more wading or up on the towel line. Anyway, they are both good detectors and I know I can do well with either. How well either does depends far more on me than the capability of either unit.

I will indeed report back on them however. Detecting Gold Jewelry in Hawaii with the Garrett Infinium

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

It is not a contest for me. I like both for the detecting I do. I lean PI so will be using the ATX most of the time, especially mask and snorkel work. I am less excited about getting the CTX into heavy surf so will probably use it more wading or up on the towel line. Anyway, they are both good detectors and I know I can do well with either. How well either does depends far more on me than the capability of either unit.

I will indeed report back on them however. Detecting Gold Jewelry in Hawaii with the Garrett Infinium

Steve: Since both detectors have the same limitation - cannot be used below 10 feet, why bother.
A more useful and meaningful comparison, as far as I am concerned would be to compare the Garrett (ATX Pro against the Infinium LS) pulse Inductions detector) and compare the Minelab (CTX 3030 against the Excalibur) multifrequency detectors.

In my opinion, both of the earlier PI and VLF multifrequency detectors (Infinium LS and Minelab Excalibur) are better for shallow water hunting and essential for diving because their proven ruggedness. Also that the Infinium (although a beast to learn) remains a better choice for coin shooting - especially when you consider the cost. Do the flashing lights add that much value? I am likewise critical of the FeCo numbers verses tones on the CTX-3030. Physics is physics - except for zincolns, the US quarter, and Nickels the FeCo numbers are all over the place leaving you to have go by the position on the screen (which is difficult to see in the sunlight) and the tones anyway.

To sum it up, I would rather see beauty and the beast compared than an odd couple

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Steve: Since both detectors have the same limitation - cannot be used below 10 feet, why bother.

A more useful and meaningful comparison, as far as I am concerned would be to compare the Garrett (ATX Pro against the Infinium LS) pulse Inductions detector) and compare the Minelab (CTX 3030 against the Excalibur) multifrequency detectors.

In my opinion, both of the earlier PI and VLF multifrequency detectors (Infinium LS and Minelab Excalibur) are better for shallow water hunting and essential for diving because their proven ruggedness.

Indeed, why bother? I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Been there done that with the Infinium and Excalibur. People should stick with whatever makes them happy. The Excalibur is certainly a safe and sensible choice for most people.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

You are totally missing the point Steve.
You might of been there and done that, but others have not.
What I am asking is for you to share your knowledge and experience with the Infinium
and the ATX Extreme PI for beach hunting (dry sand, wet sand, shallow water), I am not asking you to convince me of anything.
Unlike you, I and am sure other TNet members have never hunted with a PI and do not understand where one is more suitable than another.
All that I have been able to determine is that PIs are more location specific which does not help much.

Indeed, why bother? I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Been there done that with the Infinium and Excalibur. People should stick with whatever makes them happy. The Excalibur is certainly a safe and sensible choice for most people.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

"In my opinion, both of the earlier PI and VLF multifrequency detectors (Infinium LS and Minelab Excalibur) are better for shallow water hunting and essential for diving because their proven ruggedness."

Oh, ok. I read your statement as being the pretty strong opinion of a mind made up.

I have extensive knowledge of the Infinium and a passing familiarity of the Excalibur. Yet I am taking neither to Hawaii next month in favor of the ATX and CTX. My reason is pretty simple. I like learning about new detectors.

If I was really determined to use a VLF a lot in the surf I would go with an Excalibur or CZ-20/21. The CTX is a tad too dainty for the rough stuff. So I will be babying it in Hawaii but it will serve the purpose, which is mainly to backup the ATX, just in case.

PI vs VLF is kind of simple. In places like Hawaii, with highly mineralized volcanic sand and salt water, VLF detectors lack punch. As in when I use them they feel gutless. All detecting is site specific, and no detector is best in all places. Leading to silly this vs that on the Internet when the fact is all detectors have a time and place. The trick is to recognize and use what works best at any specific location. But you also have to account for personal style and taste. Basically, most people are adverse to digging trash targets. The more adverse they are, the more they should use a VLF. The whole point of a VLF is to pass targets.

Some of those passed up targets are good. Some people like me have an extremely high tolerance for digging junk. Does not bother me a bit if the digging is easy. I love the actual process of metal detecting and so if in my opinion the site is good, I like to remove all targets. Nothing gives me a warm fuzzy than feeling like when I am done you are going to come along and find nothing that goes beep. Nothing. Nada. If you find a hair pin or a pull tab I was being sloppy, which irritates me. My goal is A. Identify a site worth detecting and B. Completely sanitize it of targets.

I like trash and I like people using discrimination. It means there is stuff left for me to detect. It is simply a style and type of detecting you are into or not, and most people are not. I am fine with that. The only time I get discrimination happy is turf digging, and I do love my CTX 3030 for cherry picking turf.

Somebody will probably chime in with how their place is so trashy and you just can't use a PI and so forth and all I can say is no worries, use whatever works best for you. If you like using discrimination and it makes your day more pleasant, then by all means. If your time is limited, and you need to cherry pick, by all means use a VLF. There are all kinds of reasons to use a VLF, number one being to pass trash targets. If you want to eliminate as much trash as possible, use a VLF. I use VLFs where digging is very difficult or when I am tired or just for fun.

But if a site in my opinion is worth detecting, it generally is worth sanitizing clean of targets. I believe trash hides targets. Again, that is just me, it is how I like to detect, so I like PI detectors. No doubt it is all the gold nugget detecting I do. I have seen VLF detectors and people using discrimination miss so much gold it would make your head spin. My two biggest nuggets this year, a 6.5 oz and 2.3 oz, were out of people's dig holes! They acquired the target, took a dig, checked it again, called it junk, and walked. I dig buckets full of junk, but I do dig a lot of gold also, from places other people do not even detect. "No gold, too much junk". Yeah, right.

Remember that spot that produced good targets, but now a VLF finds nothing good any more? Time for a new spot or a PI.

So for me it is more about the Infinium vs the ATX and jury is out. For dry land the ATX wins hands down. A dramatic improvement over the Infinium. Gold and Silver with the New Garrett ATX Metal Detector and Gold Nugget Detecting with the Garrett ATX Metal Detector For Hawaii I am hopeful but I will not know until the end of January if the ATX is finally going to be the machine I have been waiting for to solve my Hawaii riddle. The Infinium was close but it is one unstable rough riding bronco in Hawaii. I am hoping the ATX smooths things out somewhat.

I honestly am not making a case that either PI or VLF is "better". I am making the case that different people are looking for different experiences while using metal detectors, and what one person enjoys another may not like at all. If you are not enjoying yourself, if it is work, then you will not last long. Everyone has to find the balance that is right for them.

 

[dbsmokey]

Steve,
Which machine(s) are you going to take to Kauai? I look forward to hearing your reviews. Do you agree the beaches of Kauai present a challenge even to PI detectors? That was my experience. Wish that waterproof TDI was possible...

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Steve,
Which machine(s) are you going to take to Kauai? I look forward to hearing your reviews. Do you agree the beaches of Kauai present a challenge even to PI detectors? That was my experience. Wish that waterproof TDI was possible...

Well, the two detectors in the picture, the Garrett ATX and Minelab CTX 3030. Yes, all the Hawaiian Islands are a challenge due to salt water, highly magnetic basalt cobbles/gravel/sand and military grade EMI. I can get any detector I have ever used to work anywhere, so it is not like you can't take whatever you have to Hawaii and it will not work. It is just obvious to me having been there that plenty of targets remain waiting for a stable ground balancing PI. The TDI was the best detector I have used in Hawaii but White's never has produced a water proof version. It has to be the most requested detector never produced at this point. I was sure I would have one by now but it looks like White's turned me into a Garrett owner again.

I have only had the ATX in the water once. I am pretty confidant in it for waterproof integrity as it is built like a tank. My main issue with it is the water resistance - the control box and rod all add up and need to be pushed back and forth through the water with more than minimal effort. No problem in calm water but I think it will be a problem in current. The collapsible design however is superb and adjusting from beach height to on your belly in the water length takes two seconds. It should be easier to use the shorter it is kept. The integrated sound limiter should be another bonus compared to other water PI detectors in adjusting the max target volume for. I am using Gray Ghost Amphibians which have a volume control so good to go there in water and out.

I was considering getting the 20" x 15" coil for on the beach but frankly I think that is a bit more coil than I want hanging off the ATX. I will use the CTX and 17" coil on the beach out of the water. And the CTX with 6" coil around the towel line looking for earrings.

As far as the 10 foot thing goes I am not on SCUBA and few people are. Ten feet is more than sufficient for most people, including me. Have not been on SCUBA in years. But the real question with the CTX 3030 is just how water resistant it is even to 10 feet, and so far many reports have not inspired confidence. I trust the ATX more on that regard.

 

[dewcon4414]

My only question is.... what you going to do when the ML comes out in Jan? Im not fond of either of the PIs having the coil connector at the rear. We know how that works out .... u end up constantly adjusting the flipped up coil. I for one look forward to the review.... especially since i know another on here with one that i cant wait to get my hands on.

Dew

 

[Steve Herschbach]

There is no Minelab coming out in January. I will however be getting the SDC 2300 when it becomes available, hopefully before summer.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Steve: This is exactly the type of information that I am searching for.

"In my opinion, both of the earlier PI and VLF multifrequency detectors (Infinium LS and Minelab Excalibur) are better for shallow water hunting and essential for diving because their proven ruggedness."

Oh, ok. I read your statement as being the pretty strong opinion of a mind made up.

I have extensive knowledge of the Infinium and a passing familiarity of the Excalibur. Yet I am taking neither to Hawaii next month in favor of the ATX and CTX. My reason is pretty simple. I like learning about new detectors.

If I was really determined to use a VLF a lot in the surf I would go with an Excalibur or CZ-20/21. The CTX is a tad to dainty for the rough stuff. So I will be babying it in Hawaii but it will serve the purpose, which is mainly to backup the ATX, just in case.

PI vs VLF is kind of simple. In places like Hawaii, with highly mineralized volcanic sand and salt water, VLF detectors lack punch. As in when I use them they feel gutless. All detecting is site specific, and no detector is best in all places. Leading to silly this vs that on the Internet when the fact is all detectors have a time and place. The trick is to recognize and use what works best at any specific location. But you also have to account for personal style and taste. Basically, most people are adverse to digging trash targets. The more adverse they are, the more they should use a VLF. The whole point of a VLF is to pass targets.

Some of those targets are good. Some people like me have an extremely high tolerance for digging junk. Does not bother me a bit if the digging is easy. I love the actual process of metal detecting and so if in my opinion the site is good, I like to remove all targets. Nothing gives me a warm fuzzy than feeling like when I am done you are going to come along and find nothing that goes beep. Nothing. Nada. If you find a hair pin or a pull tab I was being sloppy, which irritates me. My goal is A. Identify a site worth detecting and B. Completely sanitize it of targets.

I like trash and I like people using discrimination. It means there is stuff left for me to detect. It is simply a style and type of detecting you are into or not, and most people are not. I am fine with that. The only time I get discrimination happy is turf digging, and I do love my CTX 3030 for cherry picking turf.

Somebody will probably chime in with how their place is so trashy and you just can't use a PI and so forth and all I can say is no worries, use whatever works best for you. If you like using discrimination and it makes your day more pleasant, then by all means. If your time is limited, and you need to cherry pick, by all means use a VLF. There are all kinds of reasons to use a VLF, number one being to pass targets. If you want to pass targets, use a VLF. I use VLFs where digging is very difficult or when I am tired or just for fun.

But if a site in my opinion is worth detecting, it generally is worth sanitizing clean of targets. I believe trash hides targets. Again, that is just me, it is how I like to detect, so I like PI detectors. No doubt it is all the gold nugget detecting I do. I have seen VLF detectors and people using discrimination miss so much gold it would make your head spin. My two biggest nuggets this year, a 6.5 oz and 2.3 oz, were out of people's dig holes! They acquired the target, took a dig, checked it again, called it junk, and walked. I dig buckets full of junk, but I do dig a lot of gold also, from places other people do not even detect. "No gold, too much junk". Yeah, right.

Remember that spot that produced good targets, but now a VLF finds nothing good any more? Time for a new spot or a PI.

So for me it is more about the Infinium vs the ATX and jury is out. For dry land the ATX wins hands down. A dramatic improvement over the Infinium. Gold and Silver with the New Garrett ATX Metal Detector and Gold Nugget Detecting with the Garrett ATX Metal Detector For Hawaii I am hopeful but I will not know until the end of January if the ATX is finally going to be the machine I have been waiting for to solve my Hawaii riddle. The Infinium was close but it is one unstable rough riding bronco in Hawaii. I am hoping the ATX smooths things out somewhat.