Odds And Ends
- Thread starter bean man
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Atlantis0077
Guest
Re: Odd's And End's
Morning,
You want a few tools...okies. Dont have all my stuff digitized but here are a few frames. Most is not what I call good stuff.. it is what it is...tools, preforms, scrapers and a few field grade points. As far as collecting goes..consider yourself lucky if 20% of what you find is good quality. Here out of a hundred points found maybe 15 will be truly nice and maybe 5 of those outstanding.
I didnt know you were keeping such close tabs on my photos.....I am honored. I put photos on that I feel people can learn the most from...if they pay attention that is. My apologies if you have seen them before.
Atlantis
Morning,
You want a few tools...okies. Dont have all my stuff digitized but here are a few frames. Most is not what I call good stuff.. it is what it is...tools, preforms, scrapers and a few field grade points. As far as collecting goes..consider yourself lucky if 20% of what you find is good quality. Here out of a hundred points found maybe 15 will be truly nice and maybe 5 of those outstanding.
I didnt know you were keeping such close tabs on my photos.....I am honored. I put photos on that I feel people can learn the most from...if they pay attention that is. My apologies if you have seen them before.
Atlantis
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bean man
Hero Member
- #23
Thread Owner
Re: Odd's And End's
Those are all very nice, but I think you missed my point. I will never believe in a minute, that the only tools they used was small chert. I know you said you don't have much hardstone, but where's the pestles, grinders, large scrapers, bone tools, etc. I'm talking about the stuff, that's not so obvious. Surely, after all that digging, you can show us some unusual stuff. I did like how you posted the sand stone points. I did found them interesting.
Those are all very nice, but I think you missed my point. I will never believe in a minute, that the only tools they used was small chert. I know you said you don't have much hardstone, but where's the pestles, grinders, large scrapers, bone tools, etc. I'm talking about the stuff, that's not so obvious. Surely, after all that digging, you can show us some unusual stuff. I did like how you posted the sand stone points. I did found them interesting.
A
Atlantis0077
Guest
Re: Odd's And End's
Afternoon,
I guess I am missing your point. The point I and many others on here are making if you will listen to the voices of experience, is that most tools and scrapers..pestles, grinders mortars and the like are NOT less obvious. They are either artifacts or they aren't....they either exhibit the signs of human use or they don't. You can pull all manner of interesting dried clay bits but that doesn't make it pottery....you can have an unlimited number of rocks with holes in them, but it doesn't make them nutstones, or any other used artifact.
The fact of the matter remains that on most sites you will find the majority of artifacts to be chips and chipped stone implements of flint and chert, and if the age is right pottery sherds. In the South where I look, you find less bone, because in many instances it was destroyed by the elements. I have found deer bone awls and jawbone tools as well as turtle shells that were used as bowls and bones showing the telltale signs of marrow extraction. I have posted them before. It all has to do with age and the type of soil they are in as to preservation.
Hammerstones, handstones and nutstones and grinding stones of various types are pretty common here. Celts, axes and other polished stone tools are less common because frankly stone supplies were limited. That doesn't mean that every rock I pick up was used as a tool because I can make it fit my hand. It doesn't work that way.
Same thing with pottery. There are many ages of pottery here....the older and in many cases plainer and thicker wares can be mistaken for other items. Experience will teach you what is what, its not that difficult. Some of the later Caddo wares are really quite beautiful.
I can go to my flower bed and make photos of river rocks and other oddities, but really dont think it would do much to further knowledge on what to look for...or in that case what not to. Rocks are rocks.
What it boils down to is what you believe. I can sit here all day and try to tell you why what you have is rocks and not artifacts, but if you cling to your own beliefs to the contrary, my logic will have little effect. Believe what you want, but when you ask for an opinion be gracious enough to accept it. Nobody here knows everything, but there is a lot of experience to be found among the members. Use it or ignore it...your choice.
Sandstone points are very rare here for obvious reasons. I have maybe a half dozen or so of them including one very large stemmed version. I cannot explain the reasoning behind them except perhaps they were originally made of a harder silicified sandstone that over the progression of time deteriorated to what we find now. Some questions we have no pat answers for, but over time you tend to see just about everything. When you couple your experiences with others with many years in the field, you geometrically increase your knowledge.
There are those on here that flintknapp...wish I had their patience. That experience in dealing with how worked rock looks is quite valuable in determining an artifact from a 'chipped rock.' Many have areas of expertise..personally I am more familiar with artifacts of the deep south, others the north or west. Get with someone from your general area that are familiar with what you are likely to find....someone more knowledgable than yourself....patting each other on the back and saying yea that is probably what it is, looks good to me, doesn't cut it.
Anyhow..happy hunting and Merry Christmas. I am taking a week off and if I can get the floor replaced in my house and have some good weather I will hopefully find something 'interesting."
Atlantis
Afternoon,
I guess I am missing your point. The point I and many others on here are making if you will listen to the voices of experience, is that most tools and scrapers..pestles, grinders mortars and the like are NOT less obvious. They are either artifacts or they aren't....they either exhibit the signs of human use or they don't. You can pull all manner of interesting dried clay bits but that doesn't make it pottery....you can have an unlimited number of rocks with holes in them, but it doesn't make them nutstones, or any other used artifact.
The fact of the matter remains that on most sites you will find the majority of artifacts to be chips and chipped stone implements of flint and chert, and if the age is right pottery sherds. In the South where I look, you find less bone, because in many instances it was destroyed by the elements. I have found deer bone awls and jawbone tools as well as turtle shells that were used as bowls and bones showing the telltale signs of marrow extraction. I have posted them before. It all has to do with age and the type of soil they are in as to preservation.
Hammerstones, handstones and nutstones and grinding stones of various types are pretty common here. Celts, axes and other polished stone tools are less common because frankly stone supplies were limited. That doesn't mean that every rock I pick up was used as a tool because I can make it fit my hand. It doesn't work that way.
Same thing with pottery. There are many ages of pottery here....the older and in many cases plainer and thicker wares can be mistaken for other items. Experience will teach you what is what, its not that difficult. Some of the later Caddo wares are really quite beautiful.
I can go to my flower bed and make photos of river rocks and other oddities, but really dont think it would do much to further knowledge on what to look for...or in that case what not to. Rocks are rocks.
What it boils down to is what you believe. I can sit here all day and try to tell you why what you have is rocks and not artifacts, but if you cling to your own beliefs to the contrary, my logic will have little effect. Believe what you want, but when you ask for an opinion be gracious enough to accept it. Nobody here knows everything, but there is a lot of experience to be found among the members. Use it or ignore it...your choice.
Sandstone points are very rare here for obvious reasons. I have maybe a half dozen or so of them including one very large stemmed version. I cannot explain the reasoning behind them except perhaps they were originally made of a harder silicified sandstone that over the progression of time deteriorated to what we find now. Some questions we have no pat answers for, but over time you tend to see just about everything. When you couple your experiences with others with many years in the field, you geometrically increase your knowledge.
There are those on here that flintknapp...wish I had their patience. That experience in dealing with how worked rock looks is quite valuable in determining an artifact from a 'chipped rock.' Many have areas of expertise..personally I am more familiar with artifacts of the deep south, others the north or west. Get with someone from your general area that are familiar with what you are likely to find....someone more knowledgable than yourself....patting each other on the back and saying yea that is probably what it is, looks good to me, doesn't cut it.
Anyhow..happy hunting and Merry Christmas. I am taking a week off and if I can get the floor replaced in my house and have some good weather I will hopefully find something 'interesting."
Atlantis
bean man
Hero Member
- #25
Thread Owner
Re: Odd's And End's
I don't see where I asked for your opinion in this post, but that's OK. So, let me figure this out. Because you have thousands of points, some of which you have admittingly bought, you can post a rock, show no wear marks and we are supposed to believe it. On the other hand, if I post a rock, showing wear patterns, you somehow are able to positively say it's not an artifact. From a photo.
I don't see where I asked for your opinion in this post, but that's OK. So, let me figure this out. Because you have thousands of points, some of which you have admittingly bought, you can post a rock, show no wear marks and we are supposed to believe it. On the other hand, if I post a rock, showing wear patterns, you somehow are able to positively say it's not an artifact. From a photo.
A
Atlantis0077
Guest
Re: Odd's And End's
Afternoon,
I offer an opinion....take it or leave it.
What does purchasing anything have to do with it? I buy very little and normally from people I know and dig with. On the order of 90% of my collection is personal finds, FYI.
When I see you posting photos of legitimate relics found over years of collecting then perhaps I will give some more weight to your opinions. Until that happens as stated in an earlier post, my own counsel will I take on what is an artifact. I am in this for fun and information sharing, not for profit or who's doggy is the best.
Finally, I don't ever remember telling you positively anything you posted was or was not an artifact....only what you should or should not look for on a piece, or why my opinion on a certain piece was what it was...operative word is opinion. Since you perceive your knowledge of artifacts to be superior to those here who have been at this quite a while, and since I don't care to have a running debate on bits of junk, I will refrain from correcting your misconceptions in the future. Bought experience is afterall the best kind.
Good luck and Happy Hunting,
Atlantis
Afternoon,
I offer an opinion....take it or leave it.
What does purchasing anything have to do with it? I buy very little and normally from people I know and dig with. On the order of 90% of my collection is personal finds, FYI.
When I see you posting photos of legitimate relics found over years of collecting then perhaps I will give some more weight to your opinions. Until that happens as stated in an earlier post, my own counsel will I take on what is an artifact. I am in this for fun and information sharing, not for profit or who's doggy is the best.
Finally, I don't ever remember telling you positively anything you posted was or was not an artifact....only what you should or should not look for on a piece, or why my opinion on a certain piece was what it was...operative word is opinion. Since you perceive your knowledge of artifacts to be superior to those here who have been at this quite a while, and since I don't care to have a running debate on bits of junk, I will refrain from correcting your misconceptions in the future. Bought experience is afterall the best kind.
Good luck and Happy Hunting,
Atlantis
A
Atlantis0077
Guest
Re: Odd's And End's
Afternoon,
Lets see YOUR artifacts........I mean something other than a deformed rock......then we can talk noise.
Atlantis
Afternoon,
Lets see YOUR artifacts........I mean something other than a deformed rock......then we can talk noise.
Atlantis
A
Atlantis0077
Guest
Re: Odd's And End's
Ah ha,
The reasoning behind your comments now becomes clear. Don't buy any silver bullets Bean....I comment on very few posts or pictures. That doesn't mean I don't read or look or that they didn't measure up. I have seen artifacts on here that I can only dream of finding.
"Greatest artifact hunter in the world".....hardly. People post stuff here on a weekly basis that rivals and exceeds anything I have ever found. Works of art the lot.
Its not about oneupmanship. Its about a hobby and the mutual enjoyment of finding stuff and sharing information. There is always someone out there with a better spot, more stuff, or better things. That is all part of the fun...learning what is found around the country and figuring out what is an artifact vs what is a curious oddity.
I am sorry if my opinions differ with yours...would you rather I agree and tell you everything you post is a wonderful, rare find when its not. I try and tell you on what I base an opinion, instead of trying to learn from it, you become defensive.
Again this is a forum to learn from others. No one here claims to be 'all knowing.' Experience on the other hand speaks for itself, as does the lack of it.
Happy Hunting,
Atlantis
Ah ha,
The reasoning behind your comments now becomes clear. Don't buy any silver bullets Bean....I comment on very few posts or pictures. That doesn't mean I don't read or look or that they didn't measure up. I have seen artifacts on here that I can only dream of finding.
"Greatest artifact hunter in the world".....hardly. People post stuff here on a weekly basis that rivals and exceeds anything I have ever found. Works of art the lot.
Its not about oneupmanship. Its about a hobby and the mutual enjoyment of finding stuff and sharing information. There is always someone out there with a better spot, more stuff, or better things. That is all part of the fun...learning what is found around the country and figuring out what is an artifact vs what is a curious oddity.
I am sorry if my opinions differ with yours...would you rather I agree and tell you everything you post is a wonderful, rare find when its not. I try and tell you on what I base an opinion, instead of trying to learn from it, you become defensive.
Again this is a forum to learn from others. No one here claims to be 'all knowing.' Experience on the other hand speaks for itself, as does the lack of it.
Happy Hunting,
Atlantis
bean man
Hero Member
- #31
Thread Owner
Re: Odd's And End's
Atlantis, don't flatter yourself. I don't care if you answer my posts. When I go back and look at your arguments against my stuff in this post, I laugh. They are weak and total opinion, based on nothing more then the fact that you OWN thousands of points.
P.S. Oh yea, Happy Buying
Atlantis, don't flatter yourself. I don't care if you answer my posts. When I go back and look at your arguments against my stuff in this post, I laugh. They are weak and total opinion, based on nothing more then the fact that you OWN thousands of points.
P.S. Oh yea, Happy Buying
A
Atlantis0077
Guest
Re: Odd's And End's
Afternoon,
Hey beanman check out politics and religion if you want to stir strife and be a general nuisance, we get plenty of that in both.
This is a room for grownups, please act accordingly. You totally miss the point, and the pleasure of a forum such as this. Jealously doesn't become you.
Believe whatever you wish about your stuff, I will spare you any information in the future....the Bible warns of casting pearls and we know what sort of people despise instruction, my apologies.
I wish you well and hope you find some good stuff.
Atlantis
Afternoon,
Hey beanman check out politics and religion if you want to stir strife and be a general nuisance, we get plenty of that in both.
This is a room for grownups, please act accordingly. You totally miss the point, and the pleasure of a forum such as this. Jealously doesn't become you.
Believe whatever you wish about your stuff, I will spare you any information in the future....the Bible warns of casting pearls and we know what sort of people despise instruction, my apologies.
I wish you well and hope you find some good stuff.
Atlantis
Cannonman17
Bronze Member
Re: Odd's And End's
Atlantis- Well put posts and good examples of acutal artifacts.
Bean man- You're showing a rude side I haven't seen before. It very much seems to me that you're turning into a self proclaimed expert who very much wants the opinions of others as long as it is the same as your own. You have a long ways to go before you can even compare knwoledge/experience/artifacts with Atlantis.
The fact of the matter is that the stones you posted in the top of this thread are much better suited to some rock collecting forum than an artifact one. If you keep collecting these type of "artifacts" you'll be able to open up a landscaping business in a few years. As Atlantis mentioned, most artifacts are obvious, of these things you post one out of a hundred might be an artifact so why spend all the time and energy on these?
This has been a great forum and you have been very active, very much apart of it for a while now... maybe that is why I am so surprised at you lashing out at Atlantis and your plain old refusal to listen to him or others- What gives?
Atlantis- Well put posts and good examples of acutal artifacts.
Bean man- You're showing a rude side I haven't seen before. It very much seems to me that you're turning into a self proclaimed expert who very much wants the opinions of others as long as it is the same as your own. You have a long ways to go before you can even compare knwoledge/experience/artifacts with Atlantis.
The fact of the matter is that the stones you posted in the top of this thread are much better suited to some rock collecting forum than an artifact one. If you keep collecting these type of "artifacts" you'll be able to open up a landscaping business in a few years. As Atlantis mentioned, most artifacts are obvious, of these things you post one out of a hundred might be an artifact so why spend all the time and energy on these?
This has been a great forum and you have been very active, very much apart of it for a while now... maybe that is why I am so surprised at you lashing out at Atlantis and your plain old refusal to listen to him or others- What gives?
bean man
Hero Member
- #35
Thread Owner
Re: Odd's And End's
I will tell you whats up. You guys are point experts, not artifact experts, and I think everybody should know that, seeing how you two act like your opinions are fact. You two obviously have no idea of the variations of tools and technologies from region to region, or you wouldn't pretend like you know it all. I posted them as beano's. If you don't think their artifacts, that's fine. I don't care. It is the way you act like your opinion weighs so much. In this field, there is so much to learn, lets learn together with an open mind or get out of my way. One more thing, to you Atlantis. I don't like condensending bull$hit.
I will tell you whats up. You guys are point experts, not artifact experts, and I think everybody should know that, seeing how you two act like your opinions are fact. You two obviously have no idea of the variations of tools and technologies from region to region, or you wouldn't pretend like you know it all. I posted them as beano's. If you don't think their artifacts, that's fine. I don't care. It is the way you act like your opinion weighs so much. In this field, there is so much to learn, lets learn together with an open mind or get out of my way. One more thing, to you Atlantis. I don't like condensending bull$hit.
Cannonman17
Bronze Member
Re: Odd's And End's
I've studied artifacts, all artifacts, for a long time now, I'm not a "Point expert only" and I will leave you alone as I now see your true nature. Good luck with your rock collection LMAO!!!
I've studied artifacts, all artifacts, for a long time now, I'm not a "Point expert only" and I will leave you alone as I now see your true nature. Good luck with your rock collection LMAO!!!
ohioriver hunter
Sr. Member
Re: Odd's And End's
Wow,
I,ll say one thing Bean this has been a hell of a post.Let,s rename it the Atlantis Bean Forum. lol
Happy Huntin Beano,
Jeff
bean man said:I posted a few this year, but I guess they didn't measure up to the greatest artifact hunter in the world, because you didn't respond.
Wow,
I,ll say one thing Bean this has been a hell of a post.Let,s rename it the Atlantis Bean Forum. lol
Happy Huntin Beano,
Jeff
bean man
Hero Member
- #38
Thread Owner
Re: Odd's And End's
Really everbody, my beano's, they might be just rocks. But, they might be artifacts and that is why I post them here, in hopes of maybe one of you, have or will see something like it. As for you Cannon ball, self proclaimed expert, least I post something.
Jeff, sorry about this. He's right, it is part of my nature, but usually only when I can't take the bs anymore. I better takes some time off.
Really everbody, my beano's, they might be just rocks. But, they might be artifacts and that is why I post them here, in hopes of maybe one of you, have or will see something like it. As for you Cannon ball, self proclaimed expert, least I post something.
Jeff, sorry about this. He's right, it is part of my nature, but usually only when I can't take the bs anymore. I better takes some time off.
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