Old bullet casing ID please.......

[Mike from MI]

Found this old brass casing Short little guy. Rim fire, with US on the base. About 1/2" long, and just over 3"8" diameter.
Maybe caliber and age?
Thanks.

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

To accurately identify your cartridge-casing, we will need very precise measuements of its body-fimater and length. Was the 3/8-inch you reported a measurement of its base, or its mouth?

Three-eighths-of-an-inch, measured at the casing's mouth, translates to (aproximately) a .36 caliber casing or a .36 caliber, because there is no .37 casing.

Your measurement of "about 1/2-inch long" tells us your casing was for use in a pistol, not a rifle.

The US on your casing's base means it was made by the United States Cartridge Company, which NOT a government-owned manufacturer. The raised-lettering (not indented lettering) "US" headstamp mark on casings dates from 1885 to 1908.

 

[pistol-pete]

As a cartridge collector, This should be/is a 38 Short Rimfire, made by United States Cartridge Co, The used the raised US headstamp 1864-1872 according to the book

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

That book (whose name you did not mention) is incorrect in saying 1864-to-1872. The United States Cartridge Company was founded in 1869. It ceased cartridge-making operations in 1926. You can verify the 1869 date at several info-sources on the internet, but here's one which deals strictly with the United States Cartridge Company's history: http://lowelllandtrust.org/greenwayclassroom/history/USCartridgeCompany.pdf

As I mentioned in my prior post, Mike From MI's cartridge-casing has a "raised letters" US headstamp. Here is information from the International Ammunition Association, dating the raised-letters US headstamp on cartridges as being 1885-to-1908 (as I said in my prior post): International Ammunition Association {iaaforum.org} - View topic - Spencer Headstamps

 

[pistol-pete]

Hi Canon ball gay. The Book I stated from is "The American Cartridge" by Chuck Suydam 1960. The 1864 date probably should be 1869. However to my carteridge knowledge 63 years, all cartridge manufactures change dfrom raised to impressed HS by 1875 at latest.

 

[Talon]

Cool find Mike. Find that in the area?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I intend all of the following as friendly discussion, between two cartridge-enthusiasts sharing historical documentation information.

Yes, Chuck Suydam's "The American Cartridge" book should say 1869 (at the earliest) for the "US" headstamp, because that is the year the United States Cartridge Company was founded.

I agree that "most" cartridge-makers stopped making raised-lettering headstamps around 1875 ...but there are some exceptions. In addition to the USCC's raised US headstamp (1885-1908), and the Union Metallic Cartridge Company's raised U (1877-1880), a noteworthy example of the exceptions is the Winchester Repeating Arms compnay ...which, after buying out the Henry company, continued to use Henry''s raised-H headstamp until 1880 or a few years later. Again, see the data at: International Ammunition Association {iaaforum.org} - View topic - Spencer Headstamps

Also, you may be interested in the article on a "fancy raised-H headstamp" at the Cartridge Collectors Exchange -- which is an excellent website for identifying and dating Historical cartridges. If you don't already know about that website, I hope you'll enjoy reading through the vast amount of info available there.

 

[pistol-pete]

Thanks for the info. just for fun. recently dug a loaded 56-52 Spencer plain HS ctg about 3" down. has a hole where the black powder corroded through, but a nice find to me.

 

[TAMower]

Help me date cartridge casing with dual firing pin marks



I am looking for some information about an old shell casing I dug up a couple of days ago. I posted here because the casing looks very similar to the one the fellow posted above in 2007. There was a good discussion about the first casing but no conclusions.

First of all, it was found about six inches down (just at or below the plow line) in a field in what used to be in old Indian Territory (now Oklahoma). It was found very near a house that I have verified was there in 1870. The field where the house was located is very near the Washita River and has been in continuous cultivation since the 1870s. The soil where the casing was found is very compact, almost like clay, and was not particularly wet even after a few days of significant rain.

It's difficult to see in the first photo but the head of the casing is stamped with US inside a circle. The printing is in a serif font like Times New Roman. There appears to be another circle etched around the edge of the casing head but I'm not sure. I am confident this shell was made by the United States Cartridge Company, probably during the dates noted above.

The cartridge head is a bit rounded. I understand the bulge may have been caused by the striking of the firing pins when the bullet was fired. It has two, very clear firing pin indentations that are exactly 180 degrees apart, suggesting the shell was fired from a weapon with dual firing pins.

The casing is brass, of course, but seems to contain a bit of copper as well because it has a greenish tint. Measured with a caliper, it is 9/16" in length (just a hair over a half-inch) and the barrel (I may not be using the right language) is 7/16" wide, which would make it .4375 inches. I understand that the action of firing the bullet caused the barrel to expand somewhat so I measured it just underneath the head. As shown in the second photo, the barrel seems "ripped" or blown out, perhaps suggesting a misfire?

Compared to other ammo I have around, the casing is larger than a .38 round but seems smaller than a .45. I don't have a .44 around to compare.

I took this to a gunsmith who could say only that it was too short to have been fired from a long gun and was not fired by a modern weapon. He speculated that the casing was fired from a derringer-type handgun. I am wondering if the fact that this casing bears dual firing pin marks might help narrow the date a little...

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Welcome.

It would have been preferable to start your own thread . . . but.

Too short for a .44 Henry. The "US" headstamp is US Cartridge Co. It appears to possibly be a .41 Rimfire that someone may have fired in a Henry (two pin indentations)(?)

That would have ballooned it out as your appears to have done.

 

[A2coins]

what he said sounds like a nice old place to hunt