old spanish writing on rocks can anyone translate??

[Misty_es]

Hello,
This is a picture from my in laws ranch in New Mexico,
There is a lot of Indian ruins on the property and all over this area and many artifacts have been found here on there ranch including a conquistador Helmet.....
It's not a very good picture so I apologize.
It's on the bottom side of a large rocky hill and it's Petroglyphs and it has Spanish writing and a date drawn acrossit
Can anyone translate it??
View attachment 275812

 

[AzHal]

Unable to read the words at the angle of the pic. Can you type them out and then maybe I or someone else can translate them.

 

[minetres]

Misty,

I live in Las Cruces presenty in Iraq. We need to see better pictures and the whole rock face to get the entire meaning. Looks like you have an important map there.

Minetre

 

[Jdubya]

The large oval rock that is balanced is more than likely a "turtle" and points the direction to a treasure or to another sign.

 

[johnnycat]

I have quite a few articles on signs but nothing to help you out, sorry. If you are near a bookstore go see if they have Chuck Kenworthy's book on Spanish treasure signs. I don't remember the exact title but it's something like...Treasure signs of the Southwest. Good Luck.

 

[JakefaePa]

Something to consider is Vandelism over the years to what was originally there.

 

[Misty_es]

vandalism did cross my mind.... but this a 2000 acre ranch in the middle of nowhere the nearest small town is 50 miles so not a lot of people have been going through there mainly just people passing by on the highway that get out and hike around family ...... My in laws said that the spanish writings and drawing including the tree with the rope with the hanged man has been there for a very long time the great grandpa even talked about it.... But I'm not sure about some of the other carvings some people have no respect

 

[lastleg]

That was a great post Misty. You might want to keep it in the family
if you get my point. lastleg

 

[AzHal]

Ok I am going to give it a go on the translation, but I may be way off exspecially when it comes to verbs. So don't shoot me.

Pintar = paint
Sum is drawing a blank , but if it is Su it could mean yours, hers, his

I think that possibly the m in Sum might actually be an H if so it would go with the word Ombre as Hombre which means man.

Also from the picture and not from what you wrote down I see the word Lugar which means place.

So with all of this being said. It could mean " Your painted man in this place" or " Your/Her/His man was painted in this place.

However for the BBLA2OUO27 I have no idea what that could mean.

Tiene = have
Gracia = thanks

Feb might mean February and 14 might be the date but do not understand why % would be between them. Mexico usually refer to their dates as year/month/day

The rest I am not sure of yet. But Florez is definetely a last name.

Now with that said and done from what I can tell of the pic, your hangman is a different color than the original drawings, I don't know if that is something you did on the computer or if it is on the stone. If it is on the stone it might just be the person who drew it saying " I was at this place on this date and painted this."
I hope this helps and I am sure there are people on here that speak better spanish than I do and can give a better translation. But if you get back to this place try to get some straight on shots and not so much of an angle also write the text down and post it with the pics.

I hope this helps and good luck.

 

[AzHal]

I just went back and looked at the first photo again and so far it says
Pintar su nombre = Paint your name

And I want to clarify Tiene.. and give you a better idea what it means.
Yo tango means I have and tu teine means you have. Meaning it is in some Else's possession other than the person speaking.

I also think there are at least 3 to 4 different individuals that have contributed to writting on that stone by the color of the writings and the fonts that were used.


BBLA2OUO27 = Be Back Later At 2 Oh You Owe 27

 

[Misty_es]

AzHal,
Thank you for taking the time to translate for me....
The whole side of this rock is Navajo Petroglyphs and the hanged men were painted in red at the bottom and cover a small area of carvings above... then there are other carvings that aren't indian like the p inside of the circle and the tree with the noose....
Anyway I'm sure it just means they were here unless they carved the noose and the tree then maybe there marking where someone was hanged and that's the name and date I know that the name florez is also under the other painted mans feet too maybe they were brothers??
All I can do is guess but it's fun anyways!
Oh and SWR I don't know what's going on under the hoodie that's my little sis....LOL I didn't notice until now that I'll have to ask her!!!

Thanks Misty

 

[desertmoons]

I am no expert but...the marks either side of the "R D" are much smaller. i suspect they are abbreviations.

I suspect the RD is actually VD. Not sure about mexicans, but colonial spanish used many abbreviations....

VD for example.....

Usted had its origins during the colonial era, where it was common to address nobility and other people held in esteem (or people who thought they were held in esteem) as vuestra merced, meaning "your mercy." Vuestra merced was used in much the same way as "your honor" is used in English today, with third-person verbs. (I.e., we say "your honor is" rather than "your honor are.") It began as an extremely formal type of address, eventually becoming the standard way of addressing people in higher positions as well as persons who aren't friends or family.

As is often the case, vuestra merced became shortened over the centuries, changing to vuesarced to vusarced and eventually to vusted, which you may still hear, especially among older speakers, in some regions. Vd. was adopted as an abbreviation for that word

(From about.com)


So..perhaps luz vd flores? lug vd flores?

I've seen the small o used by months in other inscriptions. If you do get better photos please post them or email them if you like..I enjoy puzzles

The hanging men seem to be placed over older carvings. The nooses do not seem to be same time frame. Maybe they are not hung at all. I don't recall hanging being a popular method of execution,,,back then but have not researched it.


Depending on your location there are a lot of possibilities!The older stuff looks like a nice migration story starting with ane emergence spiral to my inexperienced eye. Are you sure it is Navajo?

On the expeditions from ornate's time on through vargas...there were deserters and also small contingents or even scouts sent out to reconnoiter. Who knows! That they are painted in ochre or red and the style of the hanging man on the right would make think they were newer though than 1690s. But the style of writing seems older. This based on a small bit of research and not conclusive at all.

I should think with goods pics one or more of linguistic professors at unm might be able to help. i believe at least one of them, i don't recall her name but she is a female professor that gets around in a wheel chair,specializes in colonial spanish, which in purest form that is still extant, still hangs on as a local dialect in northern new mexico.

Document it with pictures! One never knows what might happen .

 

[OPUS1]

Something to consider is Vandelism over the years to what was originally there.

 

[rginn]

I don't know. As to the Indian markings, the spiral indicates going up and could show the way to a water source. I can't make out the printing very well. My wife Maria, who does not speak English, and is Indian and Hispanic looked at this with me. We see 'Luger D o Florez'. She says it's not Mexican, but more related to Spain. Mexicans would have wrote 'Lugar de Flores'. This would mean 'place of the flowers'. Or if 'Florez' indeed is a person's name, then 'Florez' Place'. As I said before, the more I read Plehbah, the more sense he seems to make, so this could be related to Basque sheepherders, due to the writing and linguistic style.

 

[desertmoons]

lugar d o florez might also mean village of flores....

Interesting thoughts on the Basque and it might be right on. In fact peblah...you crytalized what was bugging me about it. The paintings of the figures seem much newer but the style of writing seems old world. That is was in spanish style rather than new world explains its.

I wonder where they got the ochre from...

 

[lastleg]

It was the bisque of the basgues.

 

[rginn]

So I talked to a few more of the in-laws. There is actually a proper name 'Lugerdo' or 'Luguerdo'. It's not a saint's name and apparently it's not very common in Mexico, according to them. If that's the case, then it would be basically Lugerdo Florez was here on Feb. 14. They don't know what the little per cent looking symbol would mean. I've seen a lot of graffiti left by Hispanic sheepherders around Clayton, New Mexico in the late 1800's and the writing style is different. They were notoriously bad spellers, too. I can't make out the other Spanish words you mention. That's just an idea on one small part of the picture. BTW, Iron Eyes Cody was really Espera DeCorti, an Italian. It's alright, though. He was just an actor.

 

[garrettman64]

we have covered this topic at our usual monthly meetings there native American and all this all of it that's posted and question on we learned it all at our monthly archaeologist meeting by someone working at that site and other sites in the area however i seem to have forgotton most of it but ill find my friend and ask him
s from garrettman64

 

[Deno]

Don't know anything about it, but that is to cool.

 

[itmaiden]

Cortez travelled through New Mexico, kept running into Indian trouble and moved on through Colorado, Oklahoma and possibly dipped down in the SW corner of Missouri into Arkansas.

(Now if Cortez hadn't left his pigs behind, we wouldn't have the Arkansas Razorbacks, who get their team name from the razorback hogs running wild in Arkansas forests which were left by the Spanish) Dangerous little pigs too. Sharp teeth...and mean.

Now there have been quite a few Spanish markings found in Western Arkansas. The areas of interest are along the Buffalo River and Mulberry Rivers up on the bluff/cliff areas.

There is a cave in NW Arkansas where purportedly Aztec Gold was buried. It is on privately owned property. The owners used to give tours. The cave had 2 main tunnels inside but has sinced collapsed. It is alleged to be booby-trapped as are some of the other sites along the rivers. You may drop into a covered hole. Boulders may come down on you and so forth.

So if you ever do find anything of interest on that property...beware.

itmaiden

Hello,
This is a picture from my in laws ranch in New Mexico,
There is a lot of Indian ruins on the property and all over this area and many artifacts have been found here on there ranch including a conquistador Helmet.....
It's not a very good picture so I apologize.
It's on the bottom side of a large rocky hill and it's Petroglyphs and it has Spanish writing and a date drawn acrossit
Can anyone translate it??