Paper cartridge fragment

[robertk]

I got to spend an hour or so hunting my mystery house last night. I found the usual iron stuff (bolts, bars, railroad spikes)=, etc), so I was excited to see a brass signal show up. It surprised me how small the piece of brass was, given how strong the signal was. I didn't think to measure, but if it were intact, it would be maybe a bit more than half the size of a dime. But half of it is missing. After cleaning it off, I found that it's the primer end of a paper cartridge. From what I could learn, paper cartridges fell out of use by 1870, which would make this the oldest thing I've found there so far. Unfortunately I don't see any marks or stamps that might tell more about it, so what you see is all there is. It's small potatoes compared to lots of finds here, but it made my day.

Outside and inside views:

 

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[cudamark]

Yup, look like a shot gun shell casing. Centerfire by the looks of it, so, I doubt it's as old as you think. I'm not sure when exactly they went from the pin fired to center fire. Someone here probably knows.

 

[robertk]

Yup, look like a shot gun shell casing. Centerfire by the looks of it, so, I doubt it's as old as you think. I'm not sure when exactly they went from the pin fired to center fire. Someone here probably knows.

Could be. I've found several shot shell headstamps out there, all 12 gauge (much larger than this), and all brass. This one is mostly paper, with just a brass plate with a primer in it. The brass ones I've found and identified have been in the date range 1880 to 1910. As for the primer, it definitely does look to be centerfire. Info I found online says centerfire replaced pinfire for long guns in the early 1860's. So it's no older than that, but probably up closer to the 1870/1880 range.

 

[sibbley]

Does look like the back end of a shotgun shell with the paper wad surrounding the primer. At the size you give, maybe a .410 (10.4mm).

 

[robertk]

Yup, look like a shot gun shell casing. Centerfire by the looks of it, so, I doubt it's as old as you think.

I did some more research and if it's a shotgun shell then the oldest it could be is 1870's. That's when paper shotgun shells were first introduced. But they were produced up until the 1960's, when plastic took over. So it's somewhere in that date range. So far everything else at this site has been 1880's to at most 1910, so this is probably in that range too. Maybe 1870's, but more likely 1880's to be in line with the bulk of things found.

 

[sibbley]

If it's a .410, they were first offered in the U.S. about 1907. they initially had a 2 or 2 1/2-inch paper case. Winchester introduced the 3-inch case in 1933.

 

[robertk]

If it's a .410, they were first offered in the U.S. about 1907. they initially had a 2 or 2 1/2-inch paper case. Winchester introduced the 3-inch case in 1933.

I’ll see if I can get a diameter off it, but that may be tricky to get right with in the shape it is.

 

[robertk]

I put the micrometer on it and it’s too big to be a .410. When I dug it, there was one “layer” around the outside that flaked off, so it’s just a hair smaller now than it was coming out of the ground. And right now it measure 0.51 inches in diameter. Put that last layer back and it’s probably going to be really close to 0.55, which would be a 28 gauge. Some quick research says those have been around since the 1850’s but didn’t really catch on in the US until later, eapecially after Parker Arms came out with their version in 1903. So based on the centerfield primer and the apparent gauge, I guess the date range is still really not much different — late 1800s to early 1900s, same as the rest of the site.

 

[DiggingSicilia]

I did some more research and if it's a shotgun shell then the oldest it could be is 1870's. That's when paper shotgun shells were first introduced. But they were produced up until the 1960's, when plastic took over. So it's somewhere in that date range. So far everything else at this site has been 1880's to at most 1910, so this is probably in that range too. Maybe 1870's, but more likely 1880's to be in line with the bulk of things found.

Hunters are still using them in Italy. Found it a few days ago.