Pinpointing with an ACE 250

[Monty]

I have just read yet another post where a novice is having a problem pinpointing with his ACE 250. Since I have never had a problem pinpointing with mine, I figured it's about time to go over how to do it, or at least how I do it.

When I first identify a target, I will swing my coil over it from several different directions. When I find the sharpest and sometimes loudest return signal I commence pinpointing from that direction.

Next, I "X" the target and get the close approximated location.

Then I move the coil slightly to one side or the other of my Xed location and depress the pinpoint pad. I slowly move the coil towerd the target until I get the strongest indication (all the top scale "lit" up). Then I do the same thing from the opposite direction and see if the two approaches agree. I also use a bit of to and fro movement until I get the loudest and strongest return signal.

Then I repeat the same procedure checking the depth scale. It should indicate the shallowest coin depth when it is right over the target. (For instance your LCD readout may indicate a dime at 6" initially, but in pinpointing, it may narrow down to 3"...where the target is actually located).

At this stage the small hole in the center of your coil should be centered over the exact target location.

Sometimes after the target is pinpointed, I will move the coil center very rapidly back and forth over the signal which if properly centered will produce a near constant tone. This works well with very small targets.

Carry a golf tee or a small non-metalic stick with you (even a toothpick will work) to stick into the ground in the exact spot where you have pinpointed the target. It is very easy to dig in the wrong spot if you take your eye off the target!

I think the secret, if there is one, is when you initally activate the pinpoint pad to start the pinpoint procedure, you approach it from slightly off to one side instead of trying to place the coil directly on the target.

This may sound like a difficult and time consuming procedure but after you do it a few times it will become automatic and you will find it takes a lot less time than chasing an elusive target.

Anyone who has had trouble pinpointing with his/her ACE 250 give it a try and let me know if it helps. Monty

 

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[tmanfromtexas]

Thanks Monty, I will try this method the next time I am able to get out. Tracy

 

[ac385]

Does your pinpoint ignore your setting and revert back to all metal while you are using it?

 

[Monty]

AC385, I'm not sure I understand your question, but no...it reverts back to your previous discriminating mode as soon as you release the pinpoint pad. I'm pretty sure the pinpointing mode is just another all metal mode, one that will pick up a signal without having to move the coil. Make sense? Monty

 

[hollowpointred]

nice post monty! im sure it will help a lot of new people. the only thing i do differently is once i have pinpointed the target with the upper scale "all lit up" or as "all lit up" as i can get it, i will slowly pull the coil back towards my feet. when the upper scale drops out the target will be directly under the inner loop of the coil. (if that makes sense)

 

[ac385]

Ok that's what I thought. This is a problem in my yard though because when I try to pinpoint it starts to detect all the iron nails and trash in my yard and makes pinpointing my target a little hard. My house is on a railroad track in Atlanta that happend to survive the Civil War so I have MANY years of random stuff to dig up. Also do you know what lead will show up as? I have the left side of my display discrimed out but I don't know if I would be overlooking old lead bullets by doing that.

Thanks

 

[hollowpointred]

lead will show up in the nickel/gold range.

 

[Monty]

To be honest, I don't recall off hand how lead reads on the scale. I do recall that it emits a bell tone instead of the regular flat tone. All detectors are going to give you a problem in ground that is saturated with trash targets. Have you tried the stinger coil in these areas? Sometimes when I get into an area like that I have to go to the stinger coil and work very slowly. Since it has a smaller cone shaped signal it is easier to seperate and pinpoint tightly grouped targets. The only problem is, you will lose a lot of depth. I was working an abandoned RR track recently and ran into the same problem. By switching to the stinger coil I was able to pick out some coins from all the junk. I had to go so slow and concentrate so hard I finally decided it wasn't worth the effort! Monty

 

[NLINE SIXX]

I found the Ace 250 pinpointing to be pretty accurate on my machine, as well as my GMH CX II, but I have somewhat greatly been spoiled by my TM pinpointer. It's like ever since I got the Treasure Mate pinpointer I don't have to be as dead on the target but usually I am or very close with the Ace using the method Monty speaks of. Of course if your in a park or a nicely manicured yard you would want to make the smallest hole possible but the TM has helped me a lot in locating the target while digging and sifting through the dirt

NL6

 

[Monty]

Nline Six,Just to be sure we are on the same page, you are talking about a handheld probe type pinpointer aren't you? Those are handy alright, and I use one all the time, Automax with my ACE 250 and a Sunray GTI-1 with my GTI 2500. My original post was mainly intended to locate the spot to dig rather than to locate the target once you get started. I'd like to see some more evaluations written on the various handheld pinpointers. Monty

 

[NLINE SIXX]

Sorry Monty I didn't intend to hi-jack the thread, sometimes I get to rambling at times and get side tracked on something else. Mainly the metal detector is the key source for finding the target and as stated above I have not had any problems pinpointing with the Ace 250 it's proved to be a accurate machine for me.

NL6

 

[tmanfromtexas]

I took Monty's advice on working the pinpoint mode on my Ace250 and stopped digging craters. Now that I have had some experience with the pinpoint mode it has definitely made my searches more enjoyable. When I purchased my 250 from Kellyco they had a special going that you recieved a handheld pointer free with a purchase. I dont remember the model sorry, but it has been a time saver. I forgot it Saturday morning and didnt cover near the area I had the previous time out in the same park. I also recieved the 10/12 pro coil. I used it Saturday as well and wasnt all that impressed with it. I had a lot more false signals and it didnt discriminate as well as the 6/9 coil. I guess its good to cover more area with a lot less trash in the ground. I have found over 5 bucks in change and a wheatie since last weekend so I am glad to have it. HH Tracy

 

[ivan0963]

Thanks for the info Monty.
I'm new here, and I'm enjoying the posts.
I just bought a new Ace 250 and I've just been testing it. I'm extremely happy with it.

 

[Monty]

I recently bought that pro coil also since they weren't making it yet when I bought my ACE. I have had it out a few times in an open field setting where there isn't much trash, and the targets tend to be a little deeper....which is the reason I bought it. Here I am giving advice on pinpointing and I had a devil of a time pinpointing with that larger coil. It is completely different than the stock coil. Every time I thought I had the target centered, I'd dig around until I found the object sometimes as much as 4" off to one side! Then sometimes it was right where I thought it was! I haven't figured it out yet, but when I do I think I'll like it a lot better. I'm going back and read some of the other posts on pinpointing as I think I remember one on pinpointing with the Pro coil? Monty

 

[Jax_Cavalera]

My experience so far is kind of strange.

In open parks where they are likely to have less trash I can pinpoint like a pro usually making the smallest plugs possible. I do the X pattern over the target then in pinpoint mode I start above the target and steadily pan left to right as I draw the coil towards my feet. The loud hum gets shorter in pulses as it follows the oval shaped curve and when it is just a quick ding almost.. i stop panning and drag it towards me till the hum cuts out. Right when it cuts out I know the target is just in front of the inner coil at the central position. That to me is super accurate as I am dealing with an acceptably spot on location to dig no bigger than a 5c Australian coin.



There are some problems though :

- Depth values dont seem to ever be correct.

- Since the ACE250 pinpoints in all metal mode there is no point scanning in descrims as you will end up digging the wrong things so this seems pretty dumb to me as a feature unless handheld pinpointers can work with discrimination and not just all metal.

- In my back yard where there is a lot of surface junk from someone throwing metal filings when they use to live here doing welding etc ..I get 3 things happening.

1. The detector will ding constantly the moment it touches the ground even if stationary...idk how that is possible and i am meaning the coil flat not laying on its side.

2. When I pinpoint even on the lowest setting possible I start with the coil in the air off to the side of the target and sweep it in. The hum gets louder a good distance from where I 'X' located it and is instantly on the Max bars. I pass over the target spot and the hum remains full strength. I lift the coil back into the air... still full strength hum. Once the coil goes about 2feet or 40cm to 60cm off the ground it finally stops.


This never happens when I scan in public locations like parks etc.


- Finding targets that hit anywhere in the gold-silver range seems strange. The targets seem to never be below where they were pinpointed unless they are even deeper down idk.

I am yet to pinpoint and actually find a gold-silver target.


So those issues make it hard to trust the data my ACE 250 is providing me with. I have read the manual 2 times front to back, watched their video, done tests in a controlled environment to learn the hotspot and also figure what depths translate to based on the gauge, watched and read various techniques used by veteran MD guys.

Basically I feel I have done a lot of ground work to support successful usage of the device and yet here I am getting loud pinpoint hum even when the coil is as high off the ground as my knee.


A technique for 'ultra trash' areas like my back yard that is promising is to hold the coil high enough up that the signal never initially bits max bars in pinpoint mode.

I then keep it at this height doing an X to locate the strongest signal.

When i find the origin i lower carefully to that point and mark it. Targets are usually found near this spot.

Issues are :

1. Very hard to keep the same height and not dip at all during passes over the target zone. And change in height will give you false data.

2. The target area depth is never close to accurate.


Working this way also seems wrong but i can't find a better way to do it since the moment the coil gets 6" or closer to the surface of the ground I get a constant max hum signal in pinpoint mode even over areas where the detector is not finding a signal in regular detection mode (and I am meaning all-metal .. no descrim)

Curious if anyone else has had similar experiences...? Is my unit broken..? Does your ACE do this in areas where trash metal filings have been disposed of?

And finally can you get hand held pinpointers that work in descrim modes or do they all work in All Metal mode like the one built into the ACE 250?

 

[pgfhgs]

Pin pointing with an ACE is an issue in trashy areas, key on the signal you like make an X with the detector and the object you are seeking will be directly under the post connection. It just doesn't work in trashy areas do to the all metal pin point. My hand held is all metal also and I do not know of any that would have a notch discrimination like the Ace series.

 

[Jax_Cavalera]

Pin pointing with an ACE is an issue in trashy areas, key on the signal you like make an X with the detector and the object you are seeking will be directly under the post connection. It just doesn't work in trashy areas do to the all metal pin point. My hand held is all metal also and I do not know of any that would have a notch discrimination like the Ace series.

I did find a vid showing how to work the pin point feature on the hand held AT Pro-Pointer by Garret so I'm considering strongly buying one of those if just for that reason.

No sensitivity control is a downside but when it comes to working trash .. I think that discrimination takes priority over sensitivity to an extent and even then there appears to be a way to control the sensitivity as well provided you have a sample of each metal type you are seeking. However to get started you can always use it in basic All-Metal mode till you get a collection of samples which can then be used to discriminate with.

My biggest concern with this thing is that I read most users have the switch break or it does a lot of falsing due to poor craftsmanship on the exposed wires inside contacting each other. They do appear to be fixable but still it'd be nice to buy something and not have to do extra work. I know with my ACE 250, the arm brace snapped off from the flimsy single bolt holding it in place after only 1 week of use and I wasn't even swinging hard or doing anything remotely straining on it. Put 4 screws into the sucker since then and it's held on a lot better no issues so far which is nice but again .. seems to link back to Garrett gear being cheaply made and feature packed.

I still like it, just wish it was more robust to handle some normal usage such as leaning the detector up against a wall by the arm brace etc, without having to reinforce/replace the original plastic weld job on a single bolt.



I haven't yet tested my ACE 250 Pinpointer function but am wondering if it may in fact function the same way or not?? Anyone tried this?

I also read somewhere that the ACE 250 sounding the Hum off in the air a good range from any metal target is due to possible overload from getting too close to a larger target.. not sure how true that is.


EDIT

WOW I just did a test with my ACE 250 and as I thought it's pinpoint function works somewhat similar to the AT Pro-Pointer :

So how does the ACE 250 work? I am able to get an adjustable sensitivity, actual discrimination of metal types is not possible like you can with the hand held AT Pro-Pointer but you can do the Sensitivity adjustment like you can with the pro-pointer.

To adjust sensitivity :

1. Move the coil away from all possible targets, then press and hold the Pinpoint button

2. Move in towards targets and if you are a good range from them when it begins to hum, simply let go of the Pinpoint button and re-press it.

This will temporarily reduce sensitivity of the pinpoint function requiring you to get closer to the actual targets before humming begins.

You can continue to do this till you feel you are close enough but if you go too extreme it will require you to almost be dead on top of the item before it starts to hum.. or in some cases it won't hum at all if you are too close when you adjust sensitivity.

This unexplained feature seems to explain a LOT of things about why my ACE has acted the way it acts especially in trash areas and why results can appear to be unreliable.

I hope the discovery of this (to me) hidden feature helps all you other ACE 250 users out there if you didn't know about it and how it worked.


To reset sensitivity you simply hold the coil away from all metal targets and press and hold the pinpoint button then release it again and you will be back to maximum sensitivity, humming a good distance off the ground.

 

[lookindown]

Move coil from left to right over the target...when you have target centered, move coil straight back...when the audio drops out, target is at the center tip of coil on shallow target and about an inch inside the tip on a deep target...takes three seconds and you can poke a dime with a screwdriver its so accurate...try it...throw a coin on top of the ground and pin point it so you can see it in action.

 

[Mr.T]

RIP SIR- The advice you gave travels on!

 

[enamel7]

I didn't realize Monty had passed.