Pitting and Age of Hudson Bay Beads - a question

[Learning4Life]

Does the pitting on these Red Whiteheart beads indicate anything about age or history? These beads are about 3mm. I can't find any resources with specifics about pitting or patina on glass beads of any origin. Can I use pitting to be certain about any characteristics of these beads? For example, is pitting a distinctive quality of unearthed beads, ancient beads, or both?

 

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[Tpmetal]

Now I do not know much about beads but I do know quite a bit about glass. That "pitting" is more than likely not pitting at all. Rather most likely it is devitrification that occurred during the process in which they were made. It has to do with a crystalline structure that forms during one of the times it was heated/cooled during the manufacturing process. The only way that glass is pitting is contact with hydrofloric acid or something which would leave more of a frosted look. The other option is the composition of the glass was so off that some other weird stuff can happen. This is unlikely though as this would more than likely make the glass unworkable.

 

[releventchair]

White hearts maybe.
I'd be reluctant to call them H.B. beads. Or old.

The orange peel I haven't noticed on beads. New or old, buried or worn.
I suspect an agent in the process of making reproduction beads on the cheap. A release agent or something.
In paint , oils or other contaminants can do that.

Without knowing who made them and thier recipe and process it's a guess. They should certainly know though.

Glass window plate used to come from it being floated on tin as it began to cool. (Float Glass.)
Wouldn't imperfections from that surface of the molten metal show?
No , I don't know of beads made that way , but there's a lot unknown about your samples creation.

 

[CreekSide]

They look like WhiteHearts but I can’t remember the age of these.

 

[Tpmetal]

White hearts maybe.
I'd be reluctant to call them H.B. beads. Or old.

The orange peel I haven't noticed on beads. New or old, buried or worn.
I suspect an agent in the process of making reproduction beads on the cheap. A release agent or something.
In paint , oils or other contaminants can do that.

Without knowing who made them and thier recipe and process it's a guess. They should certainly know though.

Glass window plate used to come from it being floated on tin as it began to cool. (Float Glass.)
Wouldn't imperfections from that surface of the molten metal show?
No , I don't know of beads made that way , but there's a lot unknown about your samples creation.

The release agent is on the inside. Beads are made by wrapping the hot glass around a rod with watered down clay slurry(or more modern is a kiln wash) as a release. So I'm 99 percent sure it is devitrification. And on float glass is still made on molten tin. you won't see imperfections on the surface, but the side touching the tin does get a thin film on it even though it is nearly impossible to see. You can actually tell which side is the tin side by dropping a water droplet on it from a certain distance and and watching how it hits and physically reacts.

 

[pepperj]

Does the pitting on these Red Whiteheart beads indicate anything about age or history? These beads are about 3mm. I can't find any resources with specifics about pitting or patina on glass beads of any origin. Can I use pitting to be certain about any characteristics of these beads? For example, is pitting a distinctive quality of unearthed beads, ancient beads, or both?
View attachment 2171221

Reproduction bead.
Anything "Hudson Bay" has been plagiarized to death by sellers.

Original beads were not so exact in color.

 

[releventchair]

The release agent is on the inside. Beads are made by wrapping the hot glass around a rod with watered down clay slurry(or more modern is a kiln wash) as a release. So I'm 99 percent sure it is devitrification. And on float glass is still made on molten tin. you won't see imperfections on the surface, but the side touching the tin does get a thin film on it even though it is nearly impossible to see. You can actually tell which side is the tin side by dropping a water droplet on it from a certain distance and and watching how it hits and physically reacts.

Mandril wound beads are wrapped over a clay or similar residue on the wire to prevent sticking.
Venetian beads early on showed the residue in many centers.
Tube beads are drawn? Allowing multiple layers including colors. Note Chevrons as examples.
Were original heart beads simply tube beads ground on the ends?

Your Divit mention is noticed.
Anything above 1350 F will be eligible.

 

[southfork]

Reproduction bead.
Anything "Hudson Bay" has been plagiarized to death by sellers.

Original beads were not so exact in color.

Out west all my personal finds are different shades and sizes.

 

[Tpmetal]

Mandril wound beads are wrapped over a clay or similar residue on the wire to prevent sticking.
Venetian beads early on showed the residue in many centers.
Tube beads are drawn? Allowing multiple layers including colors. Note Chevrons as examples.
Were original heart beads simply tube beads ground on the ends?

Your Divit mention is noticed.
Anything above 1350 F will be eligible.

Actually devitrification can happen at temps as low as 1000f maybe even lower, all depends on composition of the glass and its melting point. I haven't had it happen that low but I have had it happen around 1200. Not sure on the origional heart beads if they were pulled or not. Murrini beads are usually ground or tumbled. The beads shown in this post don't appear to be made that way, but it is hard to say for sure with out more pics of multiple beads from more angles. Very possible the devit could be from tumbling and trying to fire polish murrini style beads.

 

[releventchair]

Actually devitrification can happen at temps as low as 1000f maybe even lower, all depends on composition of the glass and its melting point. I haven't had it happen that low but I have had it happen around 1200. Not sure on the origional heart beads if they were pulled or not. Murrini beads are usually ground or tumbled. The beads shown in this post don't appear to be made that way, but it is hard to say for sure with out more pics of multiple beads from more angles. Very possible the devit could be from tumbling and trying to fire polish murrini style beads.

A fire polish process.
Good mention.
And potential suspect I hadn't considered.
(But I ran them at 1100! l.o.l.)

 

[CreekSide]

A fire polish process.
Good mention.
And potential suspect I hadn't considered.
(But I ran them at 1100! l.o.l.)

The OP hasn’t returned since the post.

 

[releventchair]

The OP hasn’t returned since the post.

Doesn't answer the orange

The OP hasn’t returned since the post.

Since yesterday morning? Could be bailing water or mud.
You in a hurry to solve the mystery of the orange peel surface on the O.P.'s beads too?
(The O.P. doesn't know.)

 

[pepperj]

The OP hasn’t returned since the post.

Ah! Not another one hit wonder.
Often I see multiple posts on different platforms.
All are single posts never a reply.

 

[CreekSide]

Doesn't answer the orange

Since yesterday morning? Could be bailing water or mud.
You in a hurry to solve the mystery of the orange peel surface on the O.P.'s beads too?
(The O.P. doesn't know.)

I sent a pm to the op the day of the post and no response since. They look reproduction to me

 

[Rockdog]

I am certainly no trade bead expert. All the beads I have found have been stone, clay or shell material. They certainly don't look old to me.

 

[Learning4Life]

The OP hasn’t returned since the post.

Sorry, I thought I was going to get email notifications when someone replied, but I never got them. I'm here now though, looks like a great discussion going on.

 

[Learning4Life]

I sent a pm to the op the day of the post and no response since. They look reproduction to me

Hi I'm here.

 

[Learning4Life]

Ah! Not another one hit wonder.
Often I see multiple posts on different platforms.
All are single posts never a reply.

I'm here now, I just never got email notifications about replies! I thought i had no responses so all these messages are a welcome surprise.

 

[Learning4Life]

Actually devitrification can happen at temps as low as 1000f maybe even lower, all depends on composition of the glass and its melting point. I haven't had it happen that low but I have had it happen around 1200. Not sure on the origional heart beads if they were pulled or not. Murrini beads are usually ground or tumbled. The beads shown in this post don't appear to be made that way, but it is hard to say for sure with out more pics of multiple beads from more angles. Very possible the devit could be from tumbling and trying to fire polish murrini style beads.

Very interesting thank you.

It has been a while since I took chemistry, but wouldn't rates of devitrification be multivariate? Not just dependent on T, but also other chemical processes? Off the top of my head, suppose glass were buried in a more acidic environment, or any hypothetical environment that leeches SiO2.

 

[Learning4Life]

Out west all my personal finds are different shades and sizes.

Very cool collection!