Please help me to identify this piece

[stphaniesuer]

I live in Austin Texas. My husband found this buried approx. 5" below the dirt. Can anyone tell me what it is. You can hold it in your hand and your fingers fit perfectly. It has one side that is a bit more concave that the other and there are three spikes at the top, curved at the bottom. He also found a flat stone approx 4" round. He lost that stone.
Please let me know. I wanted to take it to U.T. but I was told that the next identification appt would not be until mid August. I have to say this is the largest and most interesting piece I have ever found.
It is a limestone (chalk) stone. It is not bone.

 

[austin]

Mid August? They are either out for the summer or on a semester field class in some god forsaken hell hole, like College Station for instance. You live on top of a great deal of cretaceous era limestone called the Austin chalk formation. Yes,(item) is limestone and I would love to guess what it was used for, but they would just be guesses. If you want, try to contact Dr. Richard Adams. He is professor emeritus at UTSA, but may be around. Also ask if anyone knows where Dr. Anne Fox is. But before you do that email Dr. Joel Gunn jdgunn@uncg.edu or call (336) 256-1168. These three made UTSan Antonio's anthropology dept. one of the best back in the day. They wrote the books and will ID your tool in short order. And tell Dr. Gunn he is missed at UTSA.

 

[capsmith]

Great find.Yes I think it is a Indian artifact.I also think it is limestone.My guess is that it is a ceremonial mace or scepter.
It may be one of a kind, Keep use posted on what you find out.Tks for sharing.

 

[SemperFind]

No comments or pics of the "edge"?

 

[Neogeo]

I am gonna say Geo-fact..I dig lots of Cen-Tex middens and do a fair bit of fossil hunting here.I have never seen one just like it,but alot that are close.I found a ball of limestone once and it looked to hhave fingernail marks in it like somebody had squeezed a ball of clay.Turns out it was a worn imprint of a shell fossil..I will look and see if I can find a pic.

 

[stphaniesuer]

Thank you so much Neogeo. Pictures would be great. You said that you have found items that are similar? I would appreciate any help on this. I am stumped.

 

[Neogeo]

I will have to hunt around for some pieces.It's mostly the edge shape & the holes for me.The holes are critter burrows from when it was mud.And the odd shape & edges look water worn.It smooths it down very well,and can make it look odd for sure.I have found pieces that look like giant arrowheads,birds and such..I will see what I can find.

 

[capsmith]

I will have to hunt around for some pieces.It's mostly the edge shape & the holes for me.The holes are critter burrows from when it was mud.And the odd shape & edges look water worn.It smooths it down very well,and can make it look odd for sure.I have found pieces that look like giant arrowheads,birds and such..I will see what I can find.

I will have to agree with you about the holes.They are just holes in the rock.The grip area looks differnt to me looks like it was polished out at one time.Picture #4 looks like it has been drilled a little on top at the one inch mark.
Everyone may know this,click on the picture, when it comes up click again, then click again to zoom in.

 

[Neogeo]

I did some lookin round in the yard/rock garden found a couple that show some abnormality's.

This one is a fossil critter burrow.Given some more time and water,it could look like a bannerstone.

Now the next 3 looked like they were altered by man before I found them.But they were not,just nature.Now on two of them I did utilize the shape for my Abo work.

This one I have not used yet.

Note the nice tight edge on this one.

I am goin diggin on Sat.I will look for more.Hope this helped.

 

[austin]

OK, truly believe now that it is a native american ceremonial object. On google images I looked at Sioux ceremonial objects and there is one group of some stuff similar to yours. Your's is not sioux of course and much more ornate, but I agree with Capsmith now that it is ceremonial. Truly a special and very significant find. Should be examined by an expert. Try the museum on the UT campus or even the Harry Ransom Center. They might be able to help you. If not the Profs. will be back before semester starts. Again, great find...
If nothing else works let me know and I will go over to UTSA and have someone in anthropology take a look at your pics. They may still be off campus too(they spend summers in the Yucatan and we ain't talking Cancun), but maybe I can dig somebody up there. Let me know. I am retired and it is no trouble. I live very close to campus and still have a few friends there, although I was a prof. at a jr. college.

 

[Neogeo]

Please don't think me rude ....but that is a geofact.Note how the hand grip and the critter holes line up....Water worn critter holes is what they are.The pieces I posted all show some piece of the overall piece.I.E. Holes,thineness,and edge.Just not all together.

 

[capsmith]

Please don't think me rude ....but that is a geofact.Note how the hand grip and the critter holes line up....Water worn critter holes is what they are.The pieces I posted all show some piece of the overall piece.I.E. Holes,thineness,and edge.Just not all together.

You may be right.I have been wrong before.I am still thinking artifact.Hope we find out for sure when UT takes a look.

 

[austin]

Please don't think me rude ....but that is a geofact.Note how the hand grip and the critter holes line up....Water worn critter holes is what they are.The pieces I posted all show some piece of the overall piece.I.E. Holes,thineness,and edge.Just not all together.

LMAO

 

[Neogeo]

I didn't realize I said something funny,I was just trying to help.

 

[RGINN]

I think it's a cool rock that I would have picked up too. But it falls into the 'fits perfectly in the hand' class. Whatever would you have used it for? Maybe smashing up sand plums before it broke? Limestone is kinda soft for tools. Ceremonial. Whatever ceremony would that apply to? 'Ceremonial object' is a catch-all phrase. We think it's an artifact but got no idea what it was used for. There are indeed a few 'ceremonial' items still in existence, but you won't see them on here. They have no everyday use, and are mostly connected with religious rituals or tribal history, and for the most part are a pain in the a** for their keepers. (I knew a keeper of one of the Ten Grandmother bundles, and he did have his days when he faltered) Still, I think research could determine if this rock is an artifact or just a rock. It will be interesting to see what someone comes up with.

 

[austin]

I didn't realize I said something funny,I was just trying to help.

No, you didn't. I was just being rude. Sorry. You are probably correct in your assessment. If you think about it, does it really matter? I mean it's just a rock after all. If you found it you would maybe hang on to it, display it or maybe even throw it away. A decade ago I had an antique store with a beautiful, but very strange woman. She would have tied a couple of feathers to it, dabbed some paint on it and, like I saw her do dozens of times(why we separated, she was a crook), sell it as a mystical native american object for $500. The UT people that will examine it won't agree either, I promise. One will say what you did, one what I did and both, although PhD's. and "experts" in their fields, won't really, truthfully have a clue , but poor stphaniesuer will have an answer. Am I cynical? You better believe it. I have seen way too much BS take place in the name of scholarly research. Wouldn't surprise me if the object belonged to some immigrant kid in the 1860's who used it to crack pecans.

 

[stphaniesuer]

Received a response from Joel Gunn today. Austin, I have decided to have someone take a look at it up close and personal. Just seems to me that there are to many "alterations" for it to be just a rock. If it is an 1860 pecan cracker that is still something....lol I may even slap a feather or two on it and put it on ebay next to the haunted painting or dead fairy. Thank you all for your help. I will keep you posted and let you know what I find out.


Hi, Stephanie,

Yes, those were the days. I still have occasional communications with Dick because I am doing some work in the Maya Lowlands. I haven't heard anything about Anne since I visited SA about five years ago but she looked well and busy then.

I haven't done anything with Texas archaeology since I left 20 years ago but the piece you sent photos looks familiar. It is the sort of thing that gets carved out by the drip, drip, drip of solution cavities in the Edwards Limestone. That is not to say that someone 10,000 years ago didn't notice the same thing you did, that it would make a good snail conquer or a decoration for the hearth. Naturally carved stones like this can occur anywhere as the surface of the limestone erodes down. However, if you found it in some kind of context like lying on a pile of chert flakes, you could make some kind of argument. Also, if the edges were examined for tell-tale wear patterns, that might amount to something. Since I now live in North Carolina, I am afraid you will have to wait for that August appointment.

Let me know who says what about it.

Best regards,
Joel

 

[stphaniesuer]

If you would like to have someone at UTSA take a look at it, that would be great! I am just not convinced that it is "just a rock." Thank you again for all of your help. If you would like to see it for yourself, we may even be able to do that. I am in South Austin.

 

[capsmith]

Tks for the up date ,keep us posted.

 

[TENNESSEEGAL]

I find it an extremely interesting. If it's a geofact it's a darn interesting looking one!