PLP

[dieselram94]

As some members know, I sell on eBay. I also am very interested in helping PLP so I often donate from my auctions 10%-100% to PLP. I was wondering how many others do this. If not is there a reason why?


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DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[kayakpat]

Yes timberrat that's how things work, it is a real process and if you do not have the numerical or financial support or a good legal case built up, sometimes you lose. It is the way of the world, It takes money, talent, and knowledge to win against a powerful foe but that is how things are governed, sometimes the process fails and everybody loses and on the largest scale it is war. Ownership trumps being a neighbor, especially in capitalist America

 

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A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[kayakpat]

You can rent your property to whatever special interest you want, and for any reason, neighbors can appeal to the owners but have No authority. Same principals

 

[KevinInColorado]

I'm hoping the rat vs pat was a typo...let's keep it civil here people!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please keep it civil and keep politics not directly related, political slogans and catch phases out of posts

 

[kayakpat]

me too, I think you guys are extremely fortunate to have so much public land in your area, it sure is limiting where everything around is posted and privately owned. I would not gripe about a few restrictions or limits on use, I would be thankful to have places to go. just my perspective

 

[dieselram94]

me too, I think you guys are extremely fortunate to have so much public land in your area, it sure is limiting where everything around is posted and privately owned. I would not gripe about a few restrictions or limits on use, I would be thankful to have places to go. just my perspective

I would definitely gripe about restrictive rules and limits. Have we forgot about the 1872 mining law? This is public land, not to be confused with being owned by the federal government who "allows" us to use it. This is what PLP is for, to guarantee our access to OUR land. I better stop there so I don't carry my statement to far...


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[dieselram94]

An update...

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Latest News
Hello Friends,
We would like to say thanks once again to all of you who have stuck with us through the years, especially the last SIX PLUS YEARS fighting in the courts of California to restore our right to dredge and prospect on Federal Mining Claims. What follows is an update of where we stand legally and what happens next on June 23rd in the combined cases being heard in San Bernardino. Come to court in support if you can. If you can’t be there in person, support us online. We can’t win anything without the support of thousands of individuals. You have made this happen by consistently contributing over the years. THANK YOU!

We are winning and plan on finishing strong! Be part of the winning team! If you haven’t renewed your membership lately, you can do so on our new website:
www.publiclandsforthepeople.org

We will be at the GPAA Gold and Treasure show this weekend in Charlotte, NC. Thanks again to GPAA for their steadfast support of PLP through this long legal battle. Come out to the Gold Show Saturday and Sunday, May 30th and 31st in Charlotte and say hello! We would like to meet you and of course say “Hi” to old friends. Let us know what is happening in your neck of the woods.


UPBEAT Update for PLP Members

As the PLP membership has already been informed, on January 12, 2015, the Honorable Gilbert G. Ochoa, Judge of the Superior Court, San Bernardino County, issued a Ruling which, in effect, granted PLP’s motions for summary adjudication regarding Federal preemption as to the State’s prohibition on suction dredge mining and the 2012 Suction Dredge Mining Regulations (“2012 Regulations”) promulgated thereunder. On May 1, 2015, Judge Ochoa entered an order (nunc pro tunc) formalizing the Court’s granting of summary adjudication, as a matter of law, regarding Federal preemption as to the prohibition on suction dredge mining, and the 2012 Regulations.

The end result of the Court’s Ruling and Order is that California Fish & Game Code § 5653.1, and the 2012 Regulations promulgated thereunder by the Department of Fish & Wildlife (“DF&W”,) are declared unconstitutional, as being preempted by the Federal mining laws. As the Court explained:

“...the State’s extraordinary scheme of requiring permits and then refusing to issue them whether and/or being unable to issue permits for years, stands “as an obstacle to the accomplishment of the full purposes and objectives of Congress” under Granite Rock and a de facto ban.”


Based upon the Court’s Ruling and Order, on May 18, 2015, PLP filed a motion, along with The New 49’ers, for an injunction against DF&W from:

Enforcing the provisions of the Fish & Wildlife Code prohibiting suction dredge mining in the rivers, streams, and waterways of California without a permit, and possessing a suction dredge near closed waterways;
Enjoining the enforcement of the 2012 Regulations promulgated pursuant to § 5653.1 of the Fish & Game Code; and
Mandating the development of a permit program and regulations that do not stand as an obstacle to the full purposes and objectives of the Federal mining laws.
In its motion for an injunction, PLP, among numerous other matters, asserted that the injunction should be granted because DF&W is continuing to violate the rights of the Miners by prohibiting suction dredge mining, and making the Court’s grant of summary adjudication ineffectual. Because of this, the Miners are suffering irreparable injury and harm, including, arrests, threats of arrest, and jail time, as well as substantial monetary loss. PLP stated to the Court:
“What the Miners now seek is the practical mechanism by which this Court’s Ruling and Order is implemented in reality, so that the purpose and objectives of the Federal mining laws can again become a living and practical presence in their lives. Specifically, the Miners ask this Court for the customary remedy in such circumstances; an injunction that is in substance permanent until it might be modified by the Court when and if DF&W devises a lawful and functioning permitting program.”
PLP is hopeful that the Court will grant their requested injunction against DF&W. A hearing on PLP’s motion for the injunction will take place at 8:30 a.m., on June 23, 2015, or as soon thereafter as counsel may be heard, in the courtroom of the Honorable Gilbert G. Ochoa, Department S36J, located at 247 West Third Street, San Bernardino, CA 92415-0210.

PLP: FIGHTING TO “TAKE IT BACK AND KEEP IT” FOR TWENTY-FIVE YEARS!
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[Mad Machinist]

I would not gripe about a few restrictions or limits on use, I would be thankful to have places to go. just my perspective

Bingo!!!!!

And the problem reveals itself.

YOU may not have a problem with a few restrictions based on what you want. And based on what YOU want, YOU trample on what others want. That is the problem with the "backeasters" and a lot of "snow birds" in general.

So YOU want areas to go a few weeks out of the year and in order to "keep" those areas, you'll agree to limit the rights of those who live in those areas for the rest of the year in order to satisfy your desires and the consequences to those who live there be damned. It doesn't matter if you drive out business in those areas just as long as YOU have those areas to satisfy what you want.

It doesn't matter if you drive families to the brink, as long as you have those areas to be "thankful for".

Like I said, YOU have illustrated the problem quite eloquently.

I live here year round. I don't "run away" when it gets warm here. When you come here, your a guest. A guest in some one else's house does not get to dictate the rules in that house. You follow the rules and customs of the house out of respect.

 

[Goldwasher]

Bingo!!!!!

And the problem reveals itself.

YOU may not have a problem with a few restrictions based on what you want. And based on what YOU want, YOU trample on what others want. That is the problem with the "backeasters" and a lot of "snow birds" in general.

So YOU want areas to go a few weeks out of the year and in order to "keep" those areas, you'll agree to limit the rights of those who live in those areas for the rest of the year in order to satisfy your desires and the consequences to those who live there be damned. It doesn't matter if you drive out business in those areas just as long as YOU have those areas to satisfy what you want.

It doesn't matter if you drive families to the brink, as long as you have those areas to be "thankful for".

Like I said, YOU have illustrated the problem quite eloquently.

I live here year round. I don't "run away" when it gets warm here. When you come here, your a guest. A guest in some one else's house does not get to dictate the rules in that house. You follow the rules and customs of the house out of respect.

Exactly my claim is ten minutes from my house and I'm within ten of national forest. Kayakpat....We don't want our open public lands to become like the east coast you complain about. The folks that live in the country out here have been excellent stewards and conservationists. Its the influx of people and financially based management practices that stand to ruin it....never was the Miners, lumberman , or farmers....
the problem is directly related to the fact that people who are put in charge and advocacy groups want a piece of a pie that HAS to be created by people like us.

It doesn't seem to hard to see that some believe that many will pay to play regardless of the price. There is no regard for the less monied that make their living off the land because there are those that believe someone will always pay for access.
Unfortunately for the fools that believe such nonsense they don't realize the obvious fact that those who would rather pay to play actually don't like to work....it's a pretty stupid catch 22 to create.

We must create a permit process that covers all costs of the process....but, lets also make the process so expensive for the majority of the people who actually use and benefit....then...POOF there are no viable long term participants....so, therefore the "program" becomes pointless and wastes millions of dollars...its all absurd.

I'm glad to be part of the group that fights for the rights I use almost daily and to keep my neighborhood the way it has been....
Hope those of you that don't live in states with public lands can try to understand what were really dealing with...this is our lives and livelihood...not what we do to have fun or keep up with the Jonses!

 

[dieselram94]

Bingo!!!!!

And the problem reveals itself.

YOU may not have a problem with a few restrictions based on what you want. And based on what YOU want, YOU trample on what others want. That is the problem with the "backeasters" and a lot of "snow birds" in general.

So YOU want areas to go a few weeks out of the year and in order to "keep" those areas, you'll agree to limit the rights of those who live in those areas for the rest of the year in order to satisfy your desires and the consequences to those who live there be damned. It doesn't matter if you drive out business in those areas just as long as YOU have those areas to satisfy what you want.

It doesn't matter if you drive families to the brink, as long as you have those areas to be "thankful for".

Like I said, YOU have illustrated the problem quite eloquently.

I live here year round. I don't "run away" when it gets warm here. When you come here, your a guest. A guest in some one else's house does not get to dictate the rules in that house. You follow the rules and customs of the house out of respect.

Exactly my claim is ten minutes from my house and I'm within ten of national forest. Kayakpat....We don't want our open public lands to become like the east coast you complain about. The folks that live in the country out here have been excellent stewards and conservationists. Its the influx of people and financially based management practices that stand to ruin it....never was the Miners, lumberman , or farmers....
the problem is directly related to the fact that people who are put in charge and advocacy groups want a piece of a pie that HAS to be created by people like us.

It doesn't seem to hard to see that some believe that many will pay to play regardless of the price. There is no regard for the less monied that make their living off the land because there are those that believe someone will always pay for access.
Unfortunately for the fools that believe such nonsense they don't realize the obvious fact that those who would rather pay to play actually don't like to work....it's a pretty stupid catch 22 to create.

We must create a permit process that covers all costs of the process....but, lets also make the process so expensive for the majority of the people who actually use and benefit....then...POOF there are no viable long term participants....so, therefore the "program" becomes pointless and wastes millions of dollars...its all absurd.

I'm glad to be part of the group that fights for the rights I use almost daily and to keep my neighborhood the way it has been....
Hope those of you that don't live in states with public lands can try to understand what were really dealing with...this is our lives and livelihood...not what we do to have fun or keep up with the Jonses!

I couldn't agree more, I live in communist maine currently but I have lived in Washington, Oregon, and California. I own a second home in Florida but someday after I move down there permanently I would like to buy a small place in Oregon or California and spend some serious time sluicing on my own claim.
I'll say one thing and that is the people I'm around in the north east are of the opinion that mining, logging, off roading, hunting should be banned. I'm afraid this attitude along with even more extreme "environmentalism" is infectious and this is why I donate to PLP. I don't want these sick unconstitutional restrictions placed on our land. That being said someone in say Massachusetts has a right to visit this land but has no right to tell everyone else they can't continue their way of life using this land. The could never understand this freedom and way of life coming from a communist mindset. If I could donate more to PLP I would...


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[kayakpat]

Seems a little greedy, seems like all your gripes are about people like you that move out west and want it to be what they want and that is the result of Everybody's right to use the land as they see fit, you just don't like the results. The land belongs to ALL UNITED STATES

 

[kayakpat]

"When you come here, your a guest" You might consider me a guest, but I have the same rights to that land as you do. Because it is NOT yours, it does not grant you special rights by moving beside the property. snowbirds and eastners have just as much right to the public lands as locals, that is why it is public and not private land

 

[dieselram94]

Seems a little greedy, seems like all your gripes are about people like you that move out west and want it to be what they want and that is the result of Everybody's right to use the land as they see fit, you just don't like the results. The land belongs to ALL UNITED STATES

Who are you directing your comment to?


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[fowledup]

Who are you directing your comment to?


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Mad Machinist I do believe, shocking isn't it?

 

[Oregon Viking]

"When you come here, your a guest" You might consider me a guest, but I have the same rights to that land as you do. Because it is NOT yours, it does not grant you special rights by moving beside the property. snowbirds and eastners have just as much right to the public lands as locals, that is why it is public and not private land

OK I agree that you have the same rights to the public land as I do. I was born and raised here. The Kalmiopsis wilderness is 179,850 acres. It is literally in my back yard. We have a lot of enviro-whacko groups trying to keep us from hunting, fishing, mushroom picking....mining taking pictures. I did not include rafting because they pollute more then anyone!! This is one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen. The California redwoods are also in my backyard.. they are in the running also. Washington state is also in the running.

Now...People from "other " places show up and decide that we should not log, or fish, or mine anymore. Really? I live on 5 acres that has been in my family for more then 50 years. We never has any water quality problems...any wheres the fish.. problems..until
The enviro-nazis showed up and hired junk scientists, paid scientists, to make crap up!
Of course you can enjoy the forests here..public land right? We will defend our Constitutional rights also. Like California, Idaho and Washington state does, or is trying to do. 1872. look up that date.

Come on out! Tourism helps our economy a lot! Don't expect us to reveal the secret hunting/fishing/mining spots.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Seems a little greedy, seems like all your gripes are about people like you that move out west and want it to be what they want and that is the result of Everybody's right to use the land as they see fit, you just don't like the results. The land belongs to ALL UNITED STATES

If people like ME moved here, I wouldn't have anything to complain about. I moved here BECAUSE I could do the things I wanted like mining, riding my four wheeler around, go four wheeling in my Jeep, etc. Now a bunch of people think it should be managed so THEY can have all the fun.

There are currently over 107 million acres of wilderness areas across this country. If you want quiet, go there. There are very few places left where I can mine.

And why would we want to give any more land to the eco freaks? Two of them started the largest wildfire in AZ history in the Bear Wallow Wilderness Area. They threw a candy bar wrapper in the fire and walked away when it didn't ignite right away. 545,000 acres burnt. Over $79 million to out. Critical Mexican Spotted Owl habitat destroyed, 76 out of 143 known nesting sites destroyed. Critical Chiricahua Leopard Frog habitat destroyed. Critical Loach minnow habitat destroyed. Critical Spike Dace Minnow Habitat destroyed. Critical Apache Trout habitat destroyed. And they basically got slapped on the wrist for it, $5000 in fines and not allowed in a National Forest for three years.

Apache Sitgreaves in 2.1 million acres of contiguous Ponderosa Pine forest and these two fruit loops burnt down over 25% of it. So much for hikers and backpackers being "environmentally friendly".

So why should we give more land to be destroyed? If a miner had destroyed even 10 feet of any of those habitats, they would have been fined out of existence, crucified, drawn and quartered, then burned alive.

So NO, I DON'T like the management style that is going on. People trying to eek out a living and getting beat into the ground for it while those who are doing the real damage are treated like they are doing nothing wrong because they are "considered environmentally friendly" since they walk instead of riding.

As a miner I am REQUIRED as a condition of my mining to restore the area to as close as possible to a pre-mining condition. If I make a mess, I have to pay to clean it up. So where is the equal requirement for the hikers to clean up their mess?

Yea maybe I am being a little greedy since I DON'T want the areas I love and use destroyed by a bunch of less than intelligent people who think their crap don't stink since they are supposedly "environmentally friendly".

 

[Mad Machinist]

"When you come here, your a guest" You might consider me a guest, but I have the same rights to that land as you do. Because it is NOT yours, it does not grant you special rights by moving beside the property. snowbirds and eastners have just as much right to the public lands as locals, that is why it is public and not private land

So I can come back there and start complaining about those who kayak and how the paddle strokes disturbed the fish in the water and scare the local wildlife like frogs and you would be okay with that even though it would limit your rights? Maybe I could start some crap science about how the plastic slowly degrades and releases hydrocarbons into the water thus slowly poisoning the water for the wildlife.

BPA: Is plastic poisoning our food? | MNN - Mother Nature Network

When you try to live in a glass house, you would be wise to not cast stones.

 

[kayakpat]

No one has stopped you from giving you view for the use to the land any more than my input, The prevelant present opinion on the land use is not what you want, so why are you not getting involved for change. I would not think all that land is closed off to all the activities enjoyed by all the people, just you can't do what you want. Seems to me the land has been managed for the public for many years, and since they saw all the damage done over the years by people, they decided they need a more active view of land management. Just as you are complaining above about all those people causing problems all over, management has complaints about mining. I believe when all said and done California will win the right to dredge, it is just a battle between people who want to use the land for their own personal activity. Public perception and economic impacts along with other factors will determine what the final say will be. But brushing broad strokes and throwing a large number of people into a group and calling them names like eco-fascism NOT helping your cause. I would bet there are many of them that watch the gold shows and want to try their hand at it too. Attacking them and insulting them are just going to get mining enthusiast looked at in a very bad way, and will affect the end result in what you can do.
There are much better ways

 

[dieselram94]

No one has stopped you from giving you view for the use to the land any more than my input, The prevelant present opinion on the land use is not what you want, so why are you not getting involved for change. I would not think all that land is closed off to all the activities enjoyed by all the people, just you can't do what you want. Seems to me the land has been managed for the public for many years, and since they saw all the damage done over the years by people, they decided they need a more active view of land management. Just as you are complaining above about all those people causing problems all over, management has complaints about mining. I believe when all said and done California will win the right to dredge, it is just a battle between people who want to use the land for their own personal activity. Public perception and economic impacts along with other factors will determine what the final say will be. But brushing broad strokes and throwing a large number of people into a group and calling them names like eco-fascism NOT helping your cause. I would bet there are many of them that watch the gold shows and want to try their hand at it too. Attacking them and insulting them are just going to get mining enthusiast looked at in a very bad way, and will affect the end result in what you can do.
There are much better ways

Hold on there now, words, and phrases like Eco-fascism is accurate, tree hugger, and others I won't post are often very accurate. This fight isn't about big corporate money, and it's not about the environment; even though that's how this bill of goods is being sold and crammed down our throats. As has been stated other activities are much more destructive to the environment. How about rock climbing? It's dangerous and the hooks are usually left in the rock once their pounded in. But you don't hear about that. This is about special interests (people who want nobody using public land under the guise of environmentalists) and over powered government officials who don't give a damn about taking us the citizens rights away. If you give them an inch they'll take a mile. Someone in Boston should not have the ability to tell someone in California they cannot dredge, period. So yes, names like Eco-nazi are spot on...


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[Mad Machinist]

I am trying to figure out in you are really that naïve. You think the truth will win out by treating the other side with respect and coddling them?

I think you have bought into crap science that is based on what was done 100 years ago. Miners HAVE changed there image multiple times over the past few years. We all understand that if we leave a toxic legacy now, we won't be operating for very long. Many mining companies are cleaning up that toxic legacy left from the past even though they didn't make the mess to begin with. Scroll back a few posts and you'll see exactly what I mean in the link I posted.

Yes things were done in the past when no one knew any better. Mining IS NOT done that way anymore.

With the new processes and new understanding, it has become not only profitable to clean up those messes, it has become socially acceptable to clean up after mining.

Maybe if you worked in the mining industry as I do, you would understand this better. Mining isn't a hobby for me, it is my day job.

And yes, we will win through necessity and common sense. The "super" deposits are playing out and very few are being found anymore. The "small" miner will be making a comeback soon enough. We, "small" miners, will soon enough become a major part of the industry once more.

Why do you think there is such a push to ban mining completely right now? Many realize what I just posted is true and if there are more of us, we gain clout. Once we have that we are untouchable and much of the ideology goes by the wayside,

As for attacking them, guess they don't like taking their own medicine. When you have to use lies to further your cause, no amount of "playing nice" is going to matter. They want to use lies and half truths? Fine. They want to go to court and argue for their "right" to lie, defame, and misrepresent the truth as long as it achieves their purposes? Fine. Then they only deserve pounded into the ground and driven back under the rocks they crawled out from under, with no mercy and no quarter. Plain and simple.

If you would actually read what I post instead of ignoring the truth, you would know just how involved I am in "changing" things.