Pre-Columbian tripod bowl... with a what?

Cannonman17 · Sep 2, 2007

I collect ancient pottery from all of the North American continent. I recently was able to get a hold of two tripod bowls from an old Californian collection that have poor provenience but were certainly authentic enough. I got them for a price that I thought was OK.. waited a few days and I got them just the other day... you won't believe this. These are pieces often dug up by poor farmers from village sites trying to make a few bucks. Well it looks like the farmer did the restoration on this piece as well... LOL One of the legs was broken off, and apparently missing, so a makeshift one was used instead. It doesn't match at all, not even close... and when I looked at this odd peg leg I thought what in the heck is THAT? two holes in it... so I blew into it thinking perhaps it was a whistle... sure was. It's the broken off mouth piece to some type of flute or whistle and was just glued on this pot as a leg!! Makes a great sound, very clear and crisp. Just for the record....if any of you out there have any pottery that you would ever want to sell or TRADE.... let me know, I collect just about everything, but coins and pottery are my number 1!

badandy · Sep 2, 2007

Nice Cannonman! I was just offered some nice pottery the other day by one of my friends that told me he would sell them to me for what he got them for. Three diff. kinds for $1200.
badandy

Cannonman17 · Sep 2, 2007

For that price it should be nice stuff, have you seen it or know what kinds?

pickaway · Sep 2, 2007

Nice how old is that do you reckon?
Ive only found 1 peice of pottery it has a round circle on it and a small round bump inside the circle.

Cannonman17 · Sep 3, 2007

This one isn't too old.. 600 years would probably be a fair guess.. I have found tons of pottery around home here but almost never enough of anything to ever reconstruct it... I've found places with hundreds and thousands of pieces... trash pits I guess... it's like taking a hundred china plates, busting them up, mixing up the pieces, and then try to put them back together...I've spent many hours on it. Found it easier to buy pieces I like..

ohioriver hunter · Sep 3, 2007

Cannonman17 said:
I collect ancient pottery from all of the North American continent. I recently was able to get a hold of two tripod bowls from an old Californian collection that have poor provenience but were certainly authentic enough. I got them for a price that I thought was OK.. waited a few days and I got them just the other day... you won't believe this. These are pieces often dug up by poor farmers from village sites trying to make a few bucks. Well it looks like the farmer did the restoration on this piece as well... LOL One of the legs was broken off, and apparently missing, so a makeshift one was used instead. It doesn't match at all, not even close... and when I looked at this odd peg leg I thought what in the heck is THAT? two holes in it... so I blew into it thinking perhaps it was a whistle... sure was. It's the broken off mouth piece to some type of flute or whistle and was just glued on this pot as a leg!! Makes a great sound, very clear and crisp. Just for the record....if any of you out there have any pottery that you would ever want to sell or TRADE.... let me know, I collect just about everything, but coins and pottery are my number 1!

Wow Cannon,my late Grandfather had bought a whole garage full of old pottery in the 40,s my mom told me.He died when Iwas one. My uncle took all of it and stored it in his basement for nearly forty years.I remember seeing it when I was a kid. It was beautiful.He never ever collected or hunted for an arrowhead in his life. My mom always said her dad would have liked liked for me to have some of it since I had so much interest in it. When my uncle died, his adopted son got it and sold all of it. H then built a big fancy home after that. Hard tell what it was worth. I only have two arrowheads of what many old timers say was the biggest collection they had ever seen. Just my luck. My mom said she was going to try and recover some of it before she became ill with alzhiemers. At least I have the two. Jeff

Neanderthal · Sep 3, 2007

CM, the "odd" leg is simply another type of leg style favored by pre-co artisans. Believe it or not, the other ones are the unusual ones for southern tripods. Chances are, the added leg came from a vessel that had rattle legs and they didn't add the rattle when they applied it to that one.

Cannonman17 · Sep 3, 2007

Interesting. Did they make feet just like the end of the flutes they made down there? "whistle feet" I guess? I know they made the rattle ones.. This has the hole in the end that you blow into and another hole that when you look close, you can see has been intentionally formed to make it whistle. By the way Matt, you should see the KILLER sw bowls I just got- HUGE size and put together nicely! Ah heck, I'll take a pic and post later today, you gotta see them!

Johnny X · Sep 9, 2007

Nice Cannonman,
I'd like to see more of that collection!

xstevenx

Neanderthal · Sep 12, 2007

Sorry CM, I didn't see your reply until now. Yes, it's common for the legs to be like that. I have had some with long holes, and others with just small holes. I believe it was to allow the rattle (clay ball or stone generally) to resonate better? Would love to see some of the new ones you've acquire, you know how I am with pottery. I too have added to my pottery addiction lately..ugggh..it never ends!

Cannonman17 · Sep 14, 2007

Hey Matt- don't post any of your stuff... it makes my collection look sickly! Just kidding!!

I know for a fact you know a lot more about pottery than I do but I have to respectfully disagree with the leg on this tripod having been the rattle foot from another pot. The one hole is punched in on an angle purposely to create the angle needed to make it whistle. I wish you could see it first hand. The hole on the end is perfectly round.. which isn't anything out of the ordinary but why wouldn't both the holes be made the same..I'm going to have to try and get a close up of what I'm talking about and post it... I had no idea that you collected the South American stuff also! I would like to see that. Wait until I get my most recent acquisition... a Moche trophy head "jar". I'll post a pic as soon as I get it.

Neanderthal · Sep 14, 2007

Sounds intriguing to say the least! I'm not familiar with them placing whistles on tripods, but they sure did make alot of whistles...so anything's possible. Yours definately is an unusual form, the other two legs aren't typical either. I would also like to see the moche pot, gotta love pre-co. I'll see if I can't attach a couple of pics of pre-co to this post.

The first pic is of a tripod rattle foot in the early stages of restoration. Notice the hole on the rattle leg, it's a slit / keyhole pattern. As with many of them, the rattles in the legs wouldn't work anymore on this one (they get stuck, packed with dirt, or come out often).

The next pic is just a few of the Pre-Columbian vessels over at the museum that I'm fortunate enough to be able to fondle. You'll notice Moche, Colima, Jalisco, Chimu, etc. Also notice the jade Taino celts to the bottom right, they're fantastic specimens. There's a whole lot more than this, but it gives you an idea. LOL...I just noticed something in that pic. There are 3 large back-lit cases of mayan eccentrics, you can see them reflected at the right hand side of the glass.

Cannonman17 · Sep 14, 2007

Matt- Wow.. what a display! I wish I had the room for something like that... perhaps in the next house.... Yeah right... Have any pics of your stuff on display?
Back to that one I posted a pic of... the two unusual legs are original but the third "whistle" leg that I'm talking about isn't from the same pot at all... it was like somebody found the bowl broken and missing a leg and they just glued whatever was laying around on as the third leg.... it's not even made from the same color clay or anything and thus the reason I thought it to actually be a mouthpiece from a whistle. I just have to take a couple of better pictures for you that's all there is to it.. it's on my list of things to do! LOL
I can't wait to get that moche piece... I just hope it's real... there are so darn many fakes out there and they are getting so good at making them that it sucks.. I won't know until I get it, kind of taking a chance but the pics looked good so we'll see. Looked like there was authentic mineral deposits on the surface...

Adena_man · Sep 15, 2007

Nice, Cannonman! I'd like to see more of the pottery from both your collection and Matt's collection if you guys get a chance. I don't get to see a lot of pottery around here. All I have is a few fragments.

Brian