Putting the brakes on the skeptics

[sodak]

Im a dowser and also operate detectors.. I have 32 years experience.. I will give anyone $1000 if they can bebunk my ability to dowse with ellrods made from copper wire or house wiring. And furthermore that person must also reimburse me for my time in the same amount, for demonstrating this most unusual of treasure finding techniques...And for those interested,, the reason I never post finds from dowsing, well , I guess I do much better with a Whites detector,, after all I am a scientific treasure hunter, and use many methods to decide where and when to dig,,,,, dowsing has been a curiosity to me all my life,,,, I do it well,, and I can demonstrate the effect in public to find many types of things,, though mostly if you are just out walking around ,one may find all kinds of materials , but never know if its worth the effort to dig it up or even how deep it is,,, would you dig for two hours only to find and old car fender three feet deep,,,,, conversely,, would you advertise that you found a drain tile full of cash near an old rest area,, 15 years after a robbery...using a dowsing rod,,, certainly not and these are only examples... and its my aim to be a positive example of this hobby and I hope i didnt make anyone mad!! I dig my hobby, you know?

 

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[ClonedSIM]

Im a dowser and also operate detectors.. I have 32 years experience.. I will give anyone $1000 if they can bebunk my ability to dowse with ellrods made from copper wire or house wiring. And furthermore that person must also reimburse me for my time in the same amount, for demonstrating this most unusual of treasure finding techniques...And for those interested,, the reason I never post finds from dowsing, well , I guess I do much better with a Whites detector,, after all I am a scientific treasure hunter, and use many methods to decide where and when to dig,,,,, dowsing has been a curiosity to me all my life,,,, I do it well,, and I can demonstrate the effect in public to find many types of things,, though mostly if you are just out walking around ,one may find all kinds of materials , but never know if its worth the effort to dig it up or even how deep it is,,, would you dig for two hours only to find and old car fender three feet deep,,,,, conversely,, would you advertise that you found a drain tile full of cash near an old rest area,, 15 years after a robbery...using a dowsing rod,,, certainly not and these are only examples... and its my aim to be a positive example of this hobby and I hope i didnt make anyone mad!! I dig my hobby, you know?

What are the specifications of the test, Sodak?

 

[Libralabsoldier]

What are the parameters, and is this test to take place, before impartial witnesses? Who holds the money, and ensures it is in place and paid in full?

 

[trish76642]

I've read some of the dowsing post. I have always been curious about it.

In my opinion, when someone comes into the Dowsing Forum and trys to humiliate the dowser they need to be reported and the moderators need to have them banned from the dowsing forum! Their obviously trouble makers or they wouldnt come in here trying to start something. Who does that?!

If there were no such thing as Dowsing, T-Net wouldnt have it on here to begin with.

There are alot of things in this world some of us will never understand, but that doesnt mean they DONT exist.

If you cant disprove it, keep your rude comments to yourself!

 

[Libralabsoldier]

I am not being rude. I happen to be curious as to what sort of test the OP would consider fair, or if his challenge for what amounts to two thousand dollars for proof that this works is so much hot air.

As I said, setting up a controlled test would not be too difficult....So how is it rude to ask for guidelines in a challenge?

 

[trish76642]

I am not being rude. I happen to be curious as to what sort of test the OP would consider fair, or if his challenge for what amounts to two thousand dollars for proof that this works is so much hot air.

As I said, setting up a controlled test would not be too difficult....So how is it rude to ask for guidelines in a challenge?

Im talking about the ones who come in the forum, purposely, to be rude to the ones who believe in dowsing.
I've seen them do it!

That wasnt directed towards you.

 

[Montana Jim]

I am also interested in the test boundaries...

Will you travel?

Will you pay your OWN expenses to prove you're the real deal?

Are you willing to submit your work over neutral ground?

Are you willing to have the event filmed and recorded?

Is there a claimed limit to your abilities?

Do you have "parameters" as to what the "find" must be or can be?

This open-ended challenge is niether scientific or practical without strict limits and impartial scruteny.

I am interested in the challenge but will NOT put money on the outcome.

 

[ac385]

I need more details. The first would be your location to see if you’re close to me. Some other details are listed below.

What will you be searching for?
What area of land do you want to search in?
What sort of time frame do you need for searching?

 

[trish76642]

Are you willing to have the event filmed and recorded?

Yes...have it filmed, and explain the technique all the way through so i can learn and see how you do it.

 

[jb7487]

If there were no such thing as Dowsing, T-Net wouldnt have it on here to begin with.

Well obviously Dowsing is something that people practice so that's why T-Net has it on the forum. But lots of people practice different types of religions and not all of them can be right. And I guarantee you that there are forums for every single religion in the world. So just because someone practices something and believes in it doesn't mean that it is real.

There are alot of things in this world some of us will never understand, but that doesnt mean they DONT exist.

I totally agree with this statement. I think that humans probably understand less than 25% of the way the universe really works.

If you cant disprove it, keep your rude comments to yourself!

I have to say that I am very new here. But in my limited viewing it is very clear to me that there are many dowsers here that are way more rude than the non-believers. Yes, it only takes one person who is constantly bashing your beliefs to really bring down a forum. But unless the posts of these people are being deleted, I'm really not seeing it. Some of the dowsers here need to take a pill and relax a little. The OP is laying down the gauntlet in a grandoise fashion. It is reasonable for skeptics to want to verify the details of the challenge. Far too often what skeptics see is that the dowser changes the rules or is not clear about what the outcome is supposed to be. That is one of the main beefs that many skeptics have. The open-endedness of the dowser's claims make it impossible to prove or disprove anything. And that's the whole catch.

Just to be clear, I'm currently a skeptic. I don't believe in ghosts either. But just today I made my own dowsing rods and I intend to do some experimentation. If I can see some reasonable proof that dowsing can and does sometimes work, then I'll change my tune. In fact, I was doing some testing in my basement and five straight times in a row my rods crossed at the exact same spot in the room. As I moved away from the spot they uncrossed again. I can't explain it but I intend to try some more. So there could be hope for me to believe that there could be other forces at play here. But that doesn't necessarily mean that I will believe that people can find lost diamonds or get any question answered through dowsing or pendelums.

I believe what I believe but I have an open mind about changing my opinion. I hope that's enough for now.

 

[Libralabsoldier]

Good on ya mate.

I am a scientist by profession (Medical laboratory science). If something is shown to me that is reproducible, even if it goes against everything that modern science claims is possible, I will give it serious thought.

I have noticed that the OP has not responded. I will be equally grandiose:

Send your exact terms to libralabrat@gmail.com and I will endeavor to set up a test, along with impartial observers and those to film the results. I may have to give you my firstborn instead of a grand plus expenses, though.

To be skeptical is to be human. If someone makes a claim of positive proof, it is not too much to ask for them to present the rules of said challenge.

 

[trish76642]

To be skeptical is to be human. If someone makes a claim of positive proof, it is not too much to ask for them to present the rules of said challenge.

I agree with you Libra, there were some folks on here that werent kind enough to ask a dowser to prove his abilities or how it worked, they just came right out and called them a liar...thats so uncalled for. Thats what makes me mad.

And a rude Dowser is no better, i just dont like that kind of behavior towards people when its uncalled for. JMO

and i apologize to you if you thought i was directing that towards you earlier, you werent even on my mind when i wrote that.

There are times when i come in here and the Dowsing forum is almost as hostile as the Political Forums. I dont get it.

 

[Libralabsoldier]

I just left the political forum for just that reason.

Part of my curiosity as far as this dowsing challenge comes from the fact that it resembles a challenge made by creationist Ken Hovind...his original "million dollar challenge" appeared easy to your average biologist..but when the ACTUAL parameters were published, it proved to be impossible, unverifiable, and ultimately unwinnable. If someone can prove to me that dowsing works, and works with more frequency than guessing, I will give it some serious consideration.

IF a dowser claims to be able to find gold, that is one thing...if they claim to find pull tabs...well, that is just about as hard as finding dirt.

 

[trish76642]

I remember the "million dollar challenge" but i dont remember if he was offering a million to prove or disprove? I think if i was a dowser i would of done my best to prove it worked for a million wouldnt you? They shoulda been coming out of the wood work for that. Wonder if the offer is still there or if anyone else has stepped forward to prove it does works, and if no one has, makes ya wonder why.

 

[Libralabsoldier]

http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Kent_Hovind

It was a 250,000 dollar challenge.

 

[trish76642]

http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Kent_Hovind

It was a 250,000 dollar challenge.

Interesting sight Libra.

So it was James Randi who offered the million dollar challenge to prove paronormal, and pseudoscience.

Heres a list of the challenge applicants....http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=43

some of the applicants are pretty weird....lol

 

[jb7487]

I think if i was a dowser i would of done my best to prove it worked for a million wouldnt you?

Absolutely! What do you have to lose? We are all interested in finding treasure and there is more than one way to find it. Some dowsers will put their finger on a map, gold in their cheek, swirl their pendulum back and forth, chant the magic phrase, then trot halfway across the globe to dig a giant hole in search of who know's what. But then they refuse to go to a specific place where they know $250K/$1M is waiting for them if they can simply do the exact same thing that they do every single day. It makes no sense. I think deep down they know that what they do every day is iffy. They may truly believe in it. And it may indeed be real. But they aren't nearly as good at it as they say they are and are afraid of being exposed. Failure is just too much for them to bear even when they truly believe that they can be successful.

Heck, depending on the rules of the challenge I'd make my own dowsing rods and head on over and try my hand at a big pot of money. Even if you don't believe in dowsing you could get really lucky and pass the test anyway. It might be easier than winning the lotery!

 

[Goodyguy]

It is clear that the Amazing Randi has his own agenda with the Million Dollar Challenge.

I thought I would take the $1,000,000,00 challenge myself. However after reading the rules, especially the one that said you had to be some kind of a *media celebrity to qualify, it became clear they didn't want just any ordinary person who could dowse. They wanted a high profile person to discredit for their own reasons. Not just someone who could prove dowsing does work!


This from the rules:

12. * This offer is not open to any and all persons. Before being considered as an applicant, the person applying must satisfy two conditions: First, he/she must have a “media presence,” which means having been published, written about, or known to the media in regard to his/her claimed abilities or powers. This can be established by producing articles, videos, books, or other published material that specifically addresses the person’s abilities. Second, he/she must produce at least one signed document from an academic who has witnessed the powers or abilities of the person, and will validate that these powers or abilities have been verified.





GG~

 

[trish76642]

i hear ya J.

Maybe someone will come along and answer that question.

I did see one Dowser as an applicant, but it was with 'cards', i thought that was strange.

To me that wouldnt be considered a 'true Dowser' picking the right card?

Dowsers dont pick cards. But know one else applied except her. That i saw anyway.

 

[Libralabsoldier]

GG, the rules are in place for a reason: Randi has put up a REAL million dollars, and if they had to go through every single application of every single person who thought they could somehow cheat the system or get lucky, it would not be a problem.

I have read through this dowsing forum...how hard would it be to arrange a demonstration before your local newspaper and include a professor from a college?

The challenge remains unanswered because it is a controlled scientific environment that eliminates cheating or much chance of "luck". The OP issued a challenge, but has thus far declined to give any sort of guidelines, parameters, or rules.

Therefore, he is blowing smoke.