Raise your hand if you have found the Lost Dutchman Mine.

azdave35

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Nobodie. If you find treasure keep if to yourself and off the web. The Feds will come after you for their share anytime any place. Just send us wink and "how'd you do" and we'll get the message.

their share will be all of it...lol
 

wrmickel1

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They will take whatever they want, laws be damned. We are seeing that very clearly with what is happening in North Dakota with the pipeline.
Deduced

You got your news from where, I live right here and your comment is as wrong as a lot of your comments are!
Tell me how it's right to shoot at law inforcement, or burn private property or to build a camp on farmers land without permission to do so! And the list goes on. In the last two days they arrested 257 protesters not a one from here! All imported to the site from other states I believe 15 arrested were from AZ! So once a gain Mr. Great Deducer! Where you get your News from. Consider this as SCHOOLED TO THE NEWS!

your delightful newscaster
Wrmickel1
 
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wrmickel1

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Marius,

You are mistaken. The Military Trail continues west through Little Boulder Canyon through a saddle, drops down into West Boulder, turns north past Yellow Peak and continues north to the Salt River before turning west and eventually ends up at Fort McDowell.

The map is really pretty simple and not that hard to figure out.

Good luck,

Joe


Joe,

Not saying your wrong but I've been on the old trail and it don't go near little or west Boulder, Now a old timer in his 90's
told me the trail follows real close to the present day road and where the power lines are. And old Milartery reports say there was only one trail officially. Nothing east and west! But you got me interested in lighten me please!

Wrmickel1
 

cactusjumper

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Joe,

Not saying your wrong but I've been on the old trail and it don't go near little or west Boulder, Now a old timer in his 90's
told me the trail follows real close to the present day road and where the power lines are. And old Milartery reports say there was only one trail officially. Nothing east and west! But you got me interested in lighten me please!

Wrmickel1

No problem Mr Mickel,

If you have Dr. Glover's first book on the LDM, "The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz", you will find that he has done a great deal of the work for you in finding the 1866 Military Map of the region in question. There was more than one military trail through the range and around it. If you don't have a copy of the book, you should get one. As I said, the map is really quite simple to figure out, if you are familiar with reading maps. See page 319.

Good luck,

Joe
 

wrmickel1

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Thanks Joe

I got Milartery maps from the region, I obtained them from the military. Or my uncle did for me since he was a career Milartery dude! None of the trails were Milartery roads but they did provide protection to them. All they have is one the main trail from pumpkin patch to Fort McDowell. And yeah it took me awhile to figure out what pumpkin patch was. The only reference to side trails in that area east and west, is that they were already there beforehand.

Well I'm guessing he included side trails in the book, we probably have the same info!

Thanks Joe

Wrmickel1
 

cactusjumper

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Thanks Joe

I got Milartery maps from the region, I obtained them from the military. Or my uncle did for me since he was a career Milartery dude! None of the trails were Milartery roads but they did provide protection to them. All they have is one the main trail from pumpkin patch to Fort McDowell. And yeah it took me awhile to figure out what pumpkin patch was. The only reference to side trails in that area east and west, is that they were already there beforehand.

Well I'm guessing he included side trails in the book, we probably have the same info!

Thanks Joe

Wrmickel1

Wrm.,

I have serious doubts you have the same information as what Dr. Glover has provided. If you did, you would not have disagreed with the way I laid out the trail that went through Little Boulder and dropped down into West Boulder..... As I recall, Dr. Glover got his map from the War College.:dontknow: I am pretty sure none of the trails were "roads".



The following picture from West Boulder Canyon, is the Military Trail, exactly where it is shown on Dr. Glover's map:



Good luck,

Joe
 

wrmickel1

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Wrm.,

I have serious doubts you have the same information as what Dr. Glover has provided. If you did, you would not have disagreed with the way I laid out the trail that went through Little Boulder and dropped down into West Boulder..... As I recall, Dr. Glover got his map from the War College.:dontknow: I am pretty sure none of the trails were "roads".



The following picture from West Boulder Canyon, is the Military Trail, exactly where it is shown on Dr. Glover's map:



Good luck,

Joe


Can't agree with that yet, The Milartery keep good records they list that as a side Trail made beforehand. Now they may have used it but not documented. And I believe you are the one who wants documents on everything. It won't workout for you on this one.

Wrmickel1
 

cactusjumper

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Can't agree with that yet, The Milartery keep good records they list that as a side Trail made beforehand. Now they may have used it but not documented. And I believe you are the one who wants documents on everything. It won't workout for you on this one.

Wrmickel1

Wrm.,

I can only suggest that you read pages 317-320 in Dr. Glover's book. He provides the source material for the map. That's as documented as you can get, without going to the National Archives at Green Park. The exact location of the "documents" (maps) can be found on page 375. Dr. Glover is a very exacting man and it shows in the quality of his research.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
 

cactusjumper

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Wrm,

Let me know when you agree with Dr. Glover's map. While the maps the army drew as they moved through were nowhere as good as what we have today, they were pretty good for the times. They were good enough so that anyone familiar with the range could follow them easily. The trails probably started out as game trails, then Indian trails, then military trails and finally trails used by hikers and prospectors. If they weren't in such rough country, they would have eventually been paved roads.:laughing7:

Glad to see you back posting.

Take care,

Joe
 
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wrmickel1

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I agree Joe
The map used in Mr. Glovers book is a Survey Map done of the area for BLM or its equivalent of the Time! The maps I have are of the routes used by the military to haul in supplies from fort to fort. That's how my bro found the powder river supply depo in the middle of nowhere in Montana. So I get it now. And it's pretty safe to say there was only one know Milartery Trail in that area, And parts of that still can be seen here and there witch includes where power polls have been placed along the path. And the very one known to the Dutchman! Who knows may the old Dutchman headed north out of Phoenix on that road enter the range from the south and turned in to the first big break in the range may stop at that rest area and drew his doodle proceeded in to a north trending canyon looked back and saw a peak that appears to have a hole in it Saw weavers needle with in a five miles or so away! But who no's all with in eyesight of the military TRAIL!

Thanks Joe I needed to pick your thoughts.

Wrmickel1
 

cactusjumper

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I agree Joe
The map used in Mr. Glovers book is a Survey Map done of the area for BLM or its equivalent of the Time! The maps I have are of the routes used by the military to haul in supplies from fort to fort. That's how my bro found the powder river supply depo in the middle of nowhere in Montana. So I get it now. And it's pretty safe to say there was only one know Milartery Trail in that area, And parts of that still can be seen here and there witch includes where power polls have been placed along the path. And the very one known to the Dutchman! Who knows may the old Dutchman headed north out of Phoenix on that road enter the range from the south and turned in to the first big break in the range may stop at that rest area and drew his doodle proceeded in to a north trending canyon looked back and saw a peak that appears to have a hole in it Saw weavers needle with in a five miles or so away! But who no's all with in eyesight of the military TRAIL!

Thanks Joe I needed to pick your thoughts.

Wrmickel1

Wrm.,

Can't agree with your conclusions about Dr. Glover's map.

As far as picking my mind, that would be slim pickins indeed.

Take care,

Joe
 

Oroblanco

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Wrm.,

Can't agree with your conclusions about Dr. Glover's map.

As far as picking my mind, that would be slim pickins indeed.

Take care,

Joe

Well I must respectfully disagree with that statement which I put in bold above (it was not in the original) you are quite a historian in your own right Joe. In fact I would not mind having a chance to pick your brain some time, though I must bring a notebook as my memory is far from perfect.

Please do continue;

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2: :coffee2:
 

wrmickel1

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That's Cool Joe

But I got to stick with the facts. Trade routes Stage Coach ect. And like I said there was know known military routes through the area in question, So if they were used witch I think a short cut is what I would of took and do a lot. Even in this day and age. So I do Agree they were used from time to time. But I don't think the Dutchmen was referring to that.
My hunch is the well know trail is what he was referring to. His clue you can see the trail from he's mine but you can't see the mine from the trail, has to do with distance and nothing more. And the clue you could drive a pack wagon over his mine and would not know its there, has to do with the trails in question.

And as far as picking your noggen I find no better source weather you believe it or not! You've solved a lot of my questions over the last five years or so!

Stay Sharp Joe

I'm at 10 yards from the Finish line
Wrmickel1
 
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axer

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Waltz' Gold.jpg Just found this piece of quartz with tiny gold beads in it while deep in the Superstitions.
 

ibjeepn

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Deduced

You got your news from where, I live right here and your comment is as wrong as a lot of your comments are!
Tell me how it's right to shoot at law inforcement, or burn private property or to build a camp on farmers land without permission to do so! And the list goes on. In the last two days they arrested 257 protesters not a one from here! All imported to the site from other states I believe 15 arrested were from AZ! So once a gain Mr. Great Deducer! Where you get your News from. Consider this as SCHOOLED TO THE NEWS!

your delightful newscaster
Wrmickel1
White people don't want the pipeline.. It's ok. They'll move it. The Indians don't want it.. we are going to force it on you.

I guess if you are of Indian heritage or helping to protect their drinking water ,those things are worthy of arrest. However, if you are white. You can do the same and even take over federal lands and buildings.. without being assaulted by the police or authorities. I guess being a white, thief/ranchers has its perks over being an Native Americans trying to ensure clean drinking water for future generations.
 

wrmickel1

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Where you from dude, That whole protest was 99.99 White. The Standing Rock wanted to settle for millions till the White Douchbags came along and killed off the agreement.

White an't so bad you seem to choose them for metal detecting[emoji3]

Wrmickel1
 

azdave35

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Where you from dude, That whole protest was 99.99 White. The Standing Rock wanted to settle for millions till the White Douchbags came along and killed off the agreement.

White an't so bad you seem to choose them for metal detecting[emoji3]

Wrmickel1

maybe he's just a racist:dontknow:
 
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nobodie

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There is already 2 to 3 pipelines under the lake.
 

hooch

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lol, want pipeline moved but refuses to pick up the 809 Budweiser bottles and remove the 3 1960 ford pickups with no wheels from the front yard. Indian logic
 

somehiker

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However, if you are white. You can do the same and even take over federal lands and buildings.. without being assaulted by the police or authorities. I guess being a white, thief/ranchers has its perks over being an Native Americans

Well, you could have asked Leroy Finnicum about all of that.
But unfortunately, they gunned him down by the side of the road.....shot him in the back.
Said they knew he had a gun in his jacket pocket.
And was reaching for it while he stumbled through that snowbank, trying to keep his balance .
Snowflakes say the killing was justified......... Even applauded that solution.
How bout you, Rick.....what do you think ?
 
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