Recovery, sensitivity and depth

[Wild Colonial Boy]

been experimenting with 6" coil in heavy iron (field 2)

running 18 sens, 6/ 7 recovery and successfully finding items like buttons and a 1/8 round hat pin head & a 1/2' diameter copper ring with 1/32 wire

all 1-3" in heavy iron

Just wondering if ratio was a ratio chart floating around by users that showed if you increase sensitivity you get better depth yet find a balance with recovery that a good separation still remained

I have read that more sensitivity encourages masking, and also the nox 800 is known to get indians at 9 inches with 16 sens in trash, and some users don't go over 18 - 20 ever

so what recovery/ sens combinations give different depths ?
and do the different modes offer different combinations?

 

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[Iron Buzz]

been experimenting with 6" coil in heavy iron (field 2)

running 18 sens, 6/ 7 recovery and successfully finding items like buttons and a 1/8 round hat pin head & a 1/2' diameter copper ring with 1/32 wire

all 1-3" in heavy iron

Just wondering if ratio was a ratio chart floating around by users that showed if you increase sensitivity you get better depth yet find a balance with recovery that a good separation still remained

I have read that more sensitivity encourages masking, and also the nox 800 is known to get indians at 9 inches with 16 sens in trash, and some users don't go over 18 - 20 ever

so what recovery/ sens combinations give different depths ?
and do the different modes offer different combinations?

I may be all wet here, but to get the conversation started, I will venture that sensitivity does not encourage masking. As I understand it, sensitivity is on the receiving stage, and that the transmitted signal is the one that is responsible for masking. I am aware that what you say is the common belief, and I would love to hear why I am wrong about that... if I am.

I'm also not all that sure that depth is the best thing when it comes to trashy ground... unless the trash is all on the surface. Otherwise, depth is also going to pick up more trash to add to the signal. I believe that recovery (reaction, etc) speed is more important in those cases.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

i listened to a great pod cast on All metal Mode regarding Noel Miavez's review of the Equinox 800, and his experiments in the field with low sensitivity, its worth a listen

also on the Mine lab treasure talk blog , Recovery Speed & Target Masking April 05, 2018 11:05am, which inspired me to start testing various combinations

 

[Jason in Enid]

Minelab multi-freqs transmit at full power 100% of the time. Sensitivity is like "receiver gain" in old detectors. You control how much of the signal return goes back into the detector. If you allow too much you get lots of EMI and ground feedback, and I can also see where it could allow big trash to have a huge "halo" that interferes with nearby good targets.

To use a different analogy, think of the sensitivity as the iris of your eye. If its all the way open, you are going to be blinded by overpowering light in most situations. If it closes too much, everything gets dark and harder to discern. You have to find that happy middle of getting the best definition and resolution. As situations change, your iris changes.... so should your sensitivity.

In the older days of FBS, we had "auto sensitivity" and a manual option. It was always recommended for BEST performance to run manual as high as you could stand the chatter. Auto was for really tough locations or people still learning the machine. It worked really well, but you had get a little "crazy" to get the very edge of performance.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Minelab multi-freqs transmit at full power 100% of the time. Sensitivity is like "receiver gain" in old detectors. You control how much of the signal return goes back into the detector. If you allow too much you get lots of EMI and ground feedback, and I can also see where it could allow big trash to have a huge "halo" that interferes with nearby good targets.

To use a different analogy, think of the sensitivity as the iris of your eye. If its all the way open, you are going to be blinded by overpowering light in most situations. If it closes too much, everything gets dark and harder to discern. You have to find that happy middle of getting the best definition and resolution. As situations change, your iris changes.... so should your sensitivity.

In the older days of FBS, we had "auto sensitivity" and a manual option. It was always recommended for BEST performance to run manual as high as you could stand the chatter. Auto was for really tough locations or people still learning the machine. It worked really well, but you had get a little "crazy" to get the very edge of performance.

Great advice Jason,
I am tempted to implant a penny a various depth at my colonial site in the iron layers, and run some combinations of sens. and recovery

 

[Iron Buzz]

Minelab multi-freqs transmit at full power 100% of the time. Sensitivity is like "receiver gain" in old detectors. You control how much of the signal return goes back into the detector. If you allow too much you get lots of EMI and ground feedback, and I can also see where it could allow big trash to have a huge "halo" that interferes with nearby good targets.

To use a different analogy, think of the sensitivity as the iris of your eye. If its all the way open, you are going to be blinded by overpowering light in most situations. If it closes too much, everything gets dark and harder to discern. You have to find that happy middle of getting the best definition and resolution. As situations change, your iris changes.... so should your sensitivity.

In the older days of FBS, we had "auto sensitivity" and a manual option. It was always recommended for BEST performance to run manual as high as you could stand the chatter. Auto was for really tough locations or people still learning the machine. It worked really well, but you had get a little "crazy" to get the very edge of performance.

The way that I look at it is to think of an AM radio. You can turn the volume up on a weak, distant station, but you're also turning up all the static. But you can turn up the volume on a high power station (when I was a kid, it was WLS in Chicago) until the speaker distorts without getting any static. Receive power vs transmit power.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

to simplify my question

lets say I am running 6" coil at recovery 6, all metal , no iron bias, sens 18, field 2 and I am finding items up to 4" in iron blanket t colonial house site

if i increase sens to 20 will i get more masking or more depth as i believe both ferrous and non ferrous sound will get amplifield?

 

[Jason in Enid]

to simplify my question

lets say I am running 6" coil at recovery 6, all metal , no iron bias, sens 18, field 2 and I am finding items up to 4" in iron blanket t colonial house site

if i increase sens to 20 will i get more masking or more depth as i believe both ferrous and non ferrous sound will get amplifield?

I think the way to know is to do your own testing. Hunt it both ways and see which works better.

 

[vferrari]

Increasing sensitivity may cause the iron to dominate and start overloading the coil which effectively increases masking. There is a sensitivity sweet spot where you can maximize effective depth/minimize masking in thick iron scenarios that can only be determined by on site trial and error. Too much and iron dominates and overloads, too little and you lose too much depth. This approach is called sifting, and the point is, the deep masked keepers really cannot be recovered unless you physically remove the iron, so you are going for the relatively small and shallow 2 to 5” targets that are typically masked to machines with relatively slower recovery speeds and/or larger coils than an Equinox at recovery 6 or 7, rocking a 6 inch coil. HTH.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

thank you

 

[Owassokie]

I'm also not all that sure that depth is the best thing when it comes to trashy ground... unless the trash is all on the surface. Otherwise, depth is also going to pick up more trash to add to the signal. I believe that recovery (reaction, etc) speed is more important in those cases.

For me, depth is extremely important when hunting older parks in the Tulsa area. I would assume this applies to most older parks in large cities. Most of our parks have been hunted hard. You're not typically going to find silver dimes at 4 or 5". The issue is tons of light aluminum (tabs/caps/can slaw) which don't sink as fast/far as copper/silver/gold. So when I find a deep non-ferrous target, my chances of finding treasure go up dramatically. So I'm trying to find that balance between recovery and depth.

 

[CarsonChris]

My understanding is recovery speed is where depth is most prevalent. Lower the recovery speed for more depth. I’ve been running my 6” on 3-4 and adjusting sensitivity as needed.

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Increasing sensitivity may cause the iron to dominate and start overloading the coil which effectively increases masking. There is a sensitivity sweet spot where you can maximize effective depth/minimize masking in thick iron scenarios that can only be determined by on site trial and error. Too much and iron dominates and overloads, too little and you lose too much depth. This approach is called sifting, and the point is, the deep masked keepers really cannot be recovered unless you physically remove the iron, so you are going for the relatively small and shallow 2 to 5” targets that are typically masked to machines with relatively slower recovery speeds and/or larger coils than an Equinox at recovery 6 or 7, rocking a 6 inch coil. HTH.

went back to 4 sites that were hammered before me, and then hit hard by me and I found left overs, as expected from the equinox, previously i ran every coil with various settings, but always stayed at sens 20/22 and 5/6 sens

I was shocking surprised in the iron blanket at these very cellar lips when I ran 6 coil " at sens 18 and recovery 7, items popping out of iron, clean signals at 1-2" range, that never were detected before, and because soil is more humus and granular, items in better condition than deep and acid soil.

the recovery speed at 7 is amazing it sounds off with defined pops like a tommy gun for every target under coil clear and crisp

 

[vferrari]

went back to 4 sites that were hammered before me, and then hit hard by me and I found left overs, as expected from the equinox, previously i ran every coil with various settings, but always stayed at sens 20/22 and 5/6 sens

I was shocking surprised in the iron blanket at these very cellar lips when I ran 6 coil " at sens 18 and recovery 7, items popping out of iron, clean signals at 1-2" range, that never were detected before, and because soil is more humus and granular, items in better condition than deep and acid soil.

the recovery speed at 7 is amazing it sounds off with defined pops like a tommy gun for every target under coil clear and crisp

Glad it worked out. It is so hard to dial that sensitivity down as it runs counter to our nature as detectorists to maximize depth and take the targets out by brute force. But nuanced approaches like sifting shows that a lot of the good stuff left in the ground is not necessary super deep, so a fast detector like Equinox brings a lot to the table. You just have to know how to exploit it and that is what takes your detecting success to the next level.

 

[treasureguy56]

Im glad to hear about your success , Im working an older 1870's house site and Have been wondering about the same issue's . After hearing of your successes Im going to try things at your settings and see what happens - Thank you all

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Glad it worked out. It is so hard to dial that sensitivity down as it runs counter to our nature as detectorists to maximize depth and take the targets out by brute force. But nuanced approaches like sifting shows that a lot of the good stuff left in the ground is not necessary super deep, so a fast detector like Equinox brings a lot to the table. You just have to know how to exploit it and that is what takes your detecting success to the next level.

thank you for guiding me to this point, I couldn't put it better, I still have a great storm of debate, running through my head, when I bring down the sensitivity

but I realize that sometimes instead of concocting my own settings you have to trust all the work the developers put into this machine to make it stand out as it seems to do, and have to remind myself how sensitive the machine is even running it at 16

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Im glad to hear about your success , Im working an older 1870's house site and Have been wondering about the same issue's . After hearing of your successes Im going to try things at your settings and see what happens - Thank you all

Best of Luck, it was when I read

on the Mine lab treasure talk blog , "Recovery Speed & Target Masking" April 05, 2018 11:05am, which they encourage users to take advantage of what makes this detector stand out

which inspired me to start testing various combinations

this quote says it all

"In my opinion, one of the best things about the new EQUINOX models are the well-designed factory presets. Note: these are set for higher recovery speeds.

One of the biggest mistakes I see new users making is assuming the presets are not well thought out and immediately trying to come up with what they think are better settings.

In particular, some owners of previous Minelab's seem determined to immediately go to slower recovery speeds seeking “more depth”. Those doing so are ignoring one of EQUINOX's main advantages over other detectors"

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Since this post, and the fact the soil I so dry now, heading back to hunted sites running at 8 speed and 16/20 sens and its working great
the dryness is effecting reducing the iron Halo and letting 8 get deeper