Resumes 101: List your actual skills, not the ones you wish you had.

[mikeofaustin]

So far, I've interviews 6 people, every one of them have BA's in electronics engineering. But when asked if they were familiar with the very basic idea of an R-C circuit to form a low pass filter, they didn't. None of them could do just the basics of electronics. Schematic entry? Nope, even though their resumes said it.

Another thing I'm wondering though... if someone has a 4 year degree in electronics... a very basic R/C circuit is first semester stuff. Why do they not know just this basic stuff? ...and yes, I do phone screens, but when it actually comes down to writing it down on a white board, they seem to forget.

It's like interviewing for a line cook position... they'll put down that they've went through culinary school, and have 10+ years cooking in a 5 star kitchen... but when asked if they know what 'over easy' means... they have NO IDEA!!! It's very frustrating.

The guy I interviewed today was a very nice guy, and I felt that he really wanted the job.. but I simple could not use him. He knew nothing. I want to ask these people, "where is the person that wrote this resume?".

 

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[spartacus53]

I want to ask these people, "where is the person that wrote this resume?".

I guess they would point their guilty little fingers at me... There's nothing wrong in writing someones resume and making a sweet buck for it

 

[mikeofaustin]

I want to ask these people, "where is the person that wrote this resume?".

I guess they would point their guilty little fingers at me... There's nothing wrong in writing someones resume and making a sweet buck for it

It's o.k. to exaggerate a little, but to outright lie, does no good for them or me. The guy today mentioned a particular software that he was ' very proficient' at. But when I asked to do just some very, very basic tasks in the software, he knew as much as a 3rd grader. He stumbled around on the screen to see his mouse move... that's as much as he accomplished. This was after a phone screen with me asking him if he could drive around the software without any problem at all.

 

[spartacus53]

This was after a phone screen with me asking him if he could drive around the software without any problem at all.

I operate a street sweeper, and I wouldn't be lying if I told you I could drive circles around any software, or hardware for that matter... Just toss it on the floor and watch me go

 

[bigscoop]

It might be you're getting what you pay for. Base wage, benefits, etc., is relevant to quality. At a base wage of $35,000 a year I watched an entire lineup of failed candidates pass through the plant's revolving door. When that starting base (and benefits) was increased to $65,000 a year we started getting some engineers that, for the most part, knew what they were doing, and this was in the late 80's & early 90's. This same earnings VS quality employee also held true with tool makers, programmers, etc. If they really knew their stuff it seldom came cheap. And if you did find a couple good ones cheap, they were always looking to earn more somewhere else.

 

[diggummup]

It might be you're getting what you pay for. Base wage, benefits, etc., is relevant to quality. At a base wage of $35,000 a year I watched an entire lineup of failed candidates pass through the plant's revolving door. When that starting base (and benefits) was increased to $65,000 a year we started getting some engineers that, for the most part, knew what they were doing, and this was in the late 80's & early 90's. This same earnings VS quality employee also held true with tool makers, programmers, etc. If they really knew their stuff it seldom came cheap. And if you did find a couple good ones cheap, they were always looking to earn more somewhere else.

mikeofaustin never mentioned a salary base but I will say this... In todays economy with all the unemployment, you would think someone would be willing to work a little cheaper even if "overqualified," just to get a job with room for possible salary advancement or even a steady paycheck for that matter. It just goes to show, I think some would rather collect their unemployment for 99 weeks, versus work for the same amount they are collecting for not working. The common lazy American.
I don't know what kind of ad mike is running, or how it's worded but I think it should be edited to include, "if you don't know what your doing, don't waste my time, i'll see through your BS in a heartbeat," not in those words but you get my drift.

 

[The Beep Goes On]

A lot of folks list everything they have had even a passing familiarity with, at one time. As a programmer I "know" dozens of languages, but I would certainly have to bone up on some of them if I had to use them. The truth is that coding is the same, in general, regardless of the language and, after doing this for a while, you find that you can code just about anything. Could I answer detailed questions on certain language-specific details? Maybe, but doubtful. Could I define recursion and give the five rules of normalization? Yes. Many times a larger basket of experience may not show up with detailed questions. With as many languages and RAD environments out there, good luck knowing it all verbatim.

I took a job that didn't pay as much as "before". He's already given me an extra $500 in cash six times and a $5,000 raise, all in less than my first eight months. Work hard and earn your keep.

 

[bigscoop]

Economics is certainly a huge part of it. I was assuming Mike is looking for, and wanting, quality experienced people. Even in today's economy that still comes with a price tag which many employers, because of the economy, simply can't afford to meet anymore. I think the old saying that said, "10% of the people do 90% of the work" still holds true for the most part. Even in today's economy drawing someone from that 10% pool is probably still pretty tough to do. I'm guessing if they've already got a decent job they're probably going to keep it, and if not, they're most likely still looking for one and they'll probably continue to do so.

Good point Beep. I worked in the automation/robotics field for over 30 years and while most of it was designed around the same principles and industry standards/practices it seemed each manufacture/designer always applied their own terminology to things, which usually didn't mean squat other then to make things more confusing and difficult when allowed.

 

[mikeofaustin]

I'm not actually listing a wage, but we're starting at 30 an hour (effective salary), and then we'll base anything extra on experience. Tomorrow, I'm going to have to hire another company at $200 an hour just to take some work off my hands ( because it needs to be done ASAP, and I have no bandwidth to do it myself). It's frustrating.
The Ads that I have out there are very open, but they are very specific in the area of
-Know schematic entry
-Know basic circuit design skills

....and that's it. What I get, is someone that says they've been doing just those exact things for the last 8 years, and it quickly becomes quite obvious that they did not!

 

[Frankn]

Mike , the world of electronics is changing. When I started I knew all the basic circuits by heart. I could build a Hartley or colpits oscillator from memory. Being out of the game for years now I would have to look them up. The new generation of technicians are brought up on IC's, They aren't exposed to the very basic, and in some fields it is just a game of gates. When I retired from a large corporation, the boards were embedded through away items that could not be repaired. The design engineers had no idea what was in that block box. They only knew what the inputs and outputs should be. The boards were designed by computers and made in a completely automated process. I started with tubes and went out with large scale intergration. It's a different world. Frank

 

[bigscoop]

A lot of people looking for work, whatever they can get to keep their heads above water. Wage you're offering should eventually attract a few good candidates but I still believe you're dealing with that 10% thing in an economy where the other 90% has trippled. A lot more weeding out to do.

 

[The Beep Goes On]

Mike , the world of electronics is changing. When I started I knew all the basic circuits by heart. I could build a Hartley or colpits oscillator from memory. Being out of the game for years now I would have to look them up. The new generation of technicians are brought up on IC's, They aren't exposed to the very basic, and in some fields it is just a game of gates. When I retired from a large corporation, the boards were embedded through away items that could not be repaired. The design engineers had no idea what was in that block box. They only knew what the inputs and outputs should be. The boards were designed by computers and made in a completely automated process. I started with tubes and went out with large scale intergration. It's a different world. Frank

Similar to programming in that a lot of functionality is black-boxed in the in the language's functions, classes, etc. All you have to do is call a function appropriate to the need and you've written one line instead of potentially hundreds. The electrical black boxes would fit into a circuit diagram in the same way I would assume. We (at work) build out certain products and have engineered improvements on the electrical systems (like taking a 480V system and giving it a 24V low-voltage control system, reset and load sensor). We rely on off-the-shelf electrical components to create the curcuits and our diagrams work with the component inputs/outputs as mentioned above. I did not do any of this stuff, just learning about it. Even so, it is one of those things where you have to "use it, or lose it". There is a saying coders have: "coding by Google". If you know what you want to create, it can help you program something in an unfamiliar language vey quickly. This could be another source of the problem this topic is about.

We are using the web to augment our minds and memory. "Coding by Google" is a great example. Why remember all that stuff if you don't need too? The problem is that overreliance on anything can put you in a bad situation, as in an interview, or any situation requiring first-hand, fresh, experiential knowledge.

 

[Jeffro]

Wow- perfect timing. I just got out of a seminar that dealt with management strategy, delegating, interviewing, etc.

In todays world, its not so much what you know as what you are capable of.

Make a list of what is important to your company and rate them from 1 to 5

Adaptability
Competence
Experience
Manageability
Interpersonal skills
Attitude
Initiative
Maturity
Stability
Emotional control
Integrity
Values

and anything else that you feel would make a person qualified to work with you.

Then rate each candidate across these same categories and see how well they match company expectations. You may find out that you are willing to teach the right person with the right drive and motivation, rather than hiring someone with lots of experience and no drive.

Not trying to tell you how to do your job, but resumes these days are tailored very differently than they were even 20 years ago. BS is abundant and its tough to sort through. Not to mention those with skills in any given field are being retrained when one plant closes down and are no longer willing to go back to a job in a previous field.

Heck I work in manufacturing and its tough to find anyone that wants to work with their hands anymore, let alone has any experience.

I currently work with a dyslexic engineer that can't tell you which way to bend a piece of sheet metal, and a salesman with OCD that's on the shop floor directing employees on how he wants the job done.....

Good thing is, he can sell ice to an Eskimo, and she is a whiz with Solidworks, so we work around some stuff.

In short, I feel your pain man, LOL!

 

[bigscoop]

"Ability" is still number one on the list. I worked as a troubleshooter/installer in industrial robotics for over thirty years and the one thing I noticed time after time was that the very best designers/engineers/supervisors/ were floor educated and they had the capabilities to apply all their knowledge and skills from design to production. In say, the last 10 -15 years, far too many companies hiring educated men that are only skilled or specializing in limited areas. Started seeing this trend a lot.

 

[onfire]

Oh what fun Mike, When I started a woodworking production house I use to run adds that would say 3 years experience needed, I got one that actually said "he helped his granddad build a closet and his mom said he was good with wood"?? Most would ask for 15 to 18 per hour back then and I would tell them for the Co. to make a profit they had to produce 50 pieces per Hr. Yet half of them didn't know what the RED button on a table saw was? I blame the School system when they took the trades out of the studies.

 

[mikeofaustin]

Mike , the world of electronics is changing. When I started I knew all the basic circuits by heart. I could build a Hartley or colpits oscillator from memory. Being out of the game for years now I would have to look them up. The new generation of technicians are brought up on IC's, They aren't exposed to the very basic, and in some fields it is just a game of gates. When I retired from a large corporation, the boards were embedded through away items that could not be repaired. The design engineers had no idea what was in that block box. They only knew what the inputs and outputs should be. The boards were designed by computers and made in a completely automated process. I started with tubes and went out with large scale intergration. It's a different world. Frank

Then I'll give you a quick test... this is exactly what I ask the people I interview. (no need to draw it up... as I suspect you'd be able to say 'yep, yep, and yep'.... probably even 'no-problem at all)

1). Can you draw a simple R/C low pass filter?
2). Can you draw a simple circuit to light up an LED?
3). Can you draw a circuit that will turn an LED on with a 5volt source, with an open drain GPIO that is not 5 volt tolerant.
4). What the general voltage drop across an LED?
5). If you had to put a lot of current through a resistor, would you most likely need a 1/16watt, or a 5watt resistor?

The 3rd one, I would consider 'very able' to do with a double-e... but every fails right at question 1. They NEVER get passed the first question. Also, these questions I asked are very important things to know, because we do these things every day. AND, it's considered something very simple... something that anyone that has any knowledge in electronics should know immediately.

These questions are the equivalent to;
1). If the yolk in an egg is yellow, what is the other part and what is it's color?
2). What is the most favorite oil to use when making a salad dressing?
3). What food would need the lowest baking temp... a pizza or a 10 pound roast?

Easy stuff.

 

[mikeofaustin]

as an aside... I'll tell you that my co-worker, the firmware/verilog side of thing, hired someone on without testing him. He simple sat him down and asked him if he was able to do it. Now, low and behold, we now have a guy of 2 weeks that has not produced anything, that should have taken 1 day. I suspect we'll not continue his contract at the end of this coming week. This is after my co-worker tried to scold me because "It's bad manners to test someone in an interview".

 

[diggummup]

Then I'll give you a quick test... this is exactly what I ask the people I interview. (no need to draw it up... as I suspect you'd be able to say 'yep, yep, and yep'.... probably even 'no-problem at all)

1). Can you draw a simple R/C low pass filter?
2). Can you draw a simple circuit to light up an LED?
3). Can you draw a circuit that will turn an LED on with a 5volt source, with an open drain GPIO that is not 5 volt tolerant.
4). What the general voltage drop across an LED?
5). If you had to put a lot of current through a resistor, would you most likely need a 1/16watt, or a 5watt resistor?

Easy stuff.

I'm not into electronics but I did take it in h.s. for a semester or 2, these are things that any 1st. year tech school student should know (I would think). Maybe you should start canvassing the schools for viable prospects.

 

[The Beep Goes On]

as an aside... I'll tell you that my co-worker, the firmware/verilog side of thing, hired someone on without testing him. He simple sat him down and asked him if he was able to do it. Now, low and behold, we now have a guy of 2 weeks that has not produced anything, that should have taken 1 day. I suspect we'll not continue his contract at the end of this coming week. This is after my co-worker tried to scold me because "It's bad manners to test someone in an interview".

We went through that too; the guy basically lied. Didn't last long at all. We helped him and wish him well, but learned some things too, or, at least, the folks doing the hiring did.

 

[mikeofaustin]

So, I offered one person 60K today. He was the 'best of the worst'. He has a high school diploma, and he wasn't happy. I don't think he'll accept the offer.