Ripping OFF?

[Darth Walker]

I have read many discussions here CRH saying about how dealers/pawn shops RIP off people by buying at low prices. I think that no one forces a seller to sell. If a dealer will buy from an individual at 2X face and the individual is willing to sell that is fine. We all CRH get silver for legal tender face from people that deposited the coins. I do get upset when I see in the news paper that companies pay very low prices for silver but well if they are lucky and get sellers that is fine. I just will not sell to them.

At the end of the day CRH profession exists due to the fact that people is not informed or educated when it comes to silver coins and American History.

Just my two cents

DW

 

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[fistfulladirt]

I have read many discussions here CRH saying about how dealers/pawn shops RIP off people by buying at low prices. I think that no one forces a seller to sell. If a dealer will buy from an individual at 2X face and the individual is willing to sell that is fine. We all CRH get silver for legal tender face from people that deposited the coins. I do get upset when I see in the news paper that companies pay very low prices for silver but well if they are lucky and get sellers that is fine. I just will not sell to them.

At the end of the day CRH profession exists due to the fact that people is not informed or educated when it comes to silver coins and American History.

Just my two cents

DW

Agreed 100%. It's just a general lack of common sense in this country. Shop around for the best price.

 

[ArkieBassMan]

I agree as well. IMO its the seller's responsibility to know what an item is worth and price it accordingly.

 

[quiksilver]

Your views are valid but if an old lady goes into a coin shop asking what the items she has are worth I would say the dealer has an obligation to be honest. What he is willing to pay is his business. Would any of you lie to a friend or neighbor about what a coin was worth because you could?

 

[apush]

Yep, American history--most folks just think a bunch of old dead white men founded this country. Sorry, I never can really keep my mouth shut. It is in my nature.

Mr. Apush always has a stroke when I present a paper to a historical society as I am a non-traditional historian with viewpoints that are often--let's say, a bit unpopular or postmodernist.

Happy Silver Hunting,

apush

 

[jim4silver]

I have read many discussions here CRH saying about how dealers/pawn shops RIP off people by buying at low prices. I think that no one forces a seller to sell. If a dealer will buy from an individual at 2X face and the individual is willing to sell that is fine. We all CRH get silver for legal tender face from people that deposited the coins. I do get upset when I see in the news paper that companies pay very low prices for silver but well if they are lucky and get sellers that is fine. I just will not sell to them.

At the end of the day CRH profession exists due to the fact that people is not informed or educated when it comes to silver coins and American History.

Just my two cents

DW

Agreed 100%. It's just a general lack of common sense in this country. Shop around for the best price.

I agree in theory 100%. The only exception is that if a coin dealer happens to have ANA certification, they are supposed to maintain a certain code of ethics, which involves the term "the prevailing rate" when talking about what they should do in transactions. The code of ethics is online if you google "ANA dealer code of ethics".

Other than that, I say caveat emptor. If someone knows the coins are worth more than face (that is why they take them to a coin dealer/pawn shop instead of cashing them at a bank), then they should get on the internet or get out the yellow pages.

Yep, American history--most folks just think a bunch of old dead white men founded this country. Sorry, I never can really keep my mouth shut. It is in my nature.

Mr. Apush always has a stroke when I present a paper to a historical society as I am a non-traditional historian with viewpoints that are often--let's say, a bit unpopular or postmodernist.

Happy Silver Hunting,

apush

Interesting thing about history, no way to tell if they version of history you are being "taught" is correct or not. People today sometimes aren't even sure or able to prove what is taking place in the world as we speak, let alone 100 or 1000 years ago.

Any organized group with an agenda that is in charge of disseminating information or creating a "curriculum" can make "history" whatever they want it to be.

Jim

 

[SFBayArea]

It's one thing that an ad will state how much they're willing to pay but I'll also seen them say stuff like "top competitive prices paid" next to the 5 x face for 90% coins. That is a lie.. as I've stated on another thread before, I don't like it when people lie to me. Lying for your own personal gain to the detriment of others is unjust and wrong period in my mind. Statements like "top prices or competitive prices paid" is just a plain lie.. how is that competitive when Joe Honest Shop down the street offers 18 x face.

I've written before about the story of a crooked dealer who told some old lady who had silver certificates that "Roosevelt recalled those notes" and thus was able to obtain those notes for less than face value because he could tell the old lady knew nothing about coins or currency. So you guys think this dealer was legit in his dealing? and deserves props?

 

[jim4silver]

It's one thing that an ad will state how much they're willing to pay but I'll also seen them say stuff like "top competitive prices paid" next to the 5 x face for 90% coins. That is a lie.. as I've stated on another thread before, I don't like it when people lie to me. Lying for your own personal gain to the detriment of others is unjust and wrong period in my mind. Statements like "top prices or competitive prices paid" is just a plain lie.. how is that competitive when Joe Honest Shop down the street offers 18 x face.

I've written before about the story of a crooked dealer who told some old lady who had silver certificates that "Roosevelt recalled those notes" and thus was able to obtain those notes for less than face value because he could tell the old lady knew nothing about coins or currency. So you guys think this dealer was legit in his dealing? and deserves props?

You are adding facts that were not part of the original post. Nobody here (I believe) would condone lying to a customer such as in your facts.

If somebody walks into a pawnshop with 90% and says "how much will you give me for these" and the owner says "5X face", then I feel it is the customer's fault if he/she sells and not the owner for offering a low amount.

How would a "fair amount" be defined anyway? If both parties to the transaction agree and are not under duress (have a gun to their head) or a disability (mentally retarded, etc), then the agreed to amount is fair.

PS Nobody here is giving props to the low price coin dealer, only saying that is his/her right to operate such a business in that manner .

Jim

 

[JD-GA]

Ok.. ive been in the process of opening my own gold and silver buying place now for several weeks. Doing lots of research even to the point of going in other gold buying places and seeing what info they will let leak. I believed before doing all this research that these cash for gold places are "ripping people off". All of them say top prices payed or we pay the most. The fact is the overhead is so high that none of these places is going to pay anywhere near what most people would consider 'fair". Ive now watched countless times as customers were in various stores being offered $30 for a 6gram 10k ring. Ive watched "a little old lady" given a price of $8 per for silver eagles and i thought to myself WOW. I can open my own place and treat people fairly and will get so much business do to the fact these other places are such rip offs........... Then the reason one researches before pulling the trigger starts kicking in. Rent even in todays economy for a visible store = $3000 a month. Phone, electric, Dsl, minimum advertising $1000 a month. No way to do it by yourself so at least one employee even part time is another $1000, to $2000 a month. And remember that employee has to be an honest one and its hard to get honest work so cheap right? So now you gotta earn $5000 a month before you earn a single cent. And these cash for gold places if i use an average number of what they would share are able to buy about 275 grams of gold a week and about 15 silver coins a week. Of course there are odds and ends as those numbers are averaged. These places pay from 50% to 60% of melt value on gold and only 9X face on silver coins.

So to make a long story longer haha........ If i opened a store, and payed a much more fair price like 80% for gold and 12 to 15x on silver. I would lose my butt unless I double or triple the amount of buinsess all the other stores are doing. Then that would mean more employees, bigger more expensive location yada yada. Anyway my point is things that seem unfair often simply isnt. I mean It wouldnt seem fair for me to risk my familys livelyhood in order to pay people so much for their unwanted goods that i went bust would it? Ive twice grabbed peoples attention in banks when they were cashing in silver coins and either bought them for TONS more or gave them information to go elsewhere so im not without my feelings for fairness as well. But there is a lot more to people staying afloat and keeping their familys fed with a business. And remember, all of us on this forum are cashing in on peoples ignorance everytime we buy a silver coins at face.

 

[SFBayArea]

Ok.. ive been in the process of opening my own gold and silver buying place now for several weeks. Doing lots of research even to the point of going in other gold buying places and seeing what info they will let leak. I believed before doing all this research that these cash for gold places are "ripping people off". All of them say top prices payed or we pay the most. The fact is the overhead is so high that none of these places is going to pay anywhere near what most people would consider 'fair". Ive now watched countless times as customers were in various stores being offered $30 for a 6gram 10k ring. Ive watched "a little old lady" given a price of $8 per for silver eagles and i thought to myself WOW. I can open my own place and treat people fairly and will get so much business do to the fact these other places are such rip offs........... Then the reason one researches before pulling the trigger starts kicking in. Rent even in todays economy for a visible store = $3000 a month. Phone, electric, Dsl, minimum advertising $1000 a month. No way to do it by yourself so at least one employee even part time is another $1000, to $2000 a month. And remember that employee has to be an honest one and its hard to get honest work so cheap right? So now you gotta earn $5000 a month before you earn a single cent. And these cash for gold places if i use an average number of what they would share are able to buy about 275 grams of gold a week and about 15 silver coins a week. Of course there are odds and ends as those numbers are averaged. These places pay from 50% to 60% of melt value on gold and only 9X face on silver coins.

So to make a long story longer haha........ If i opened a store, and payed a much more fair price like 80% for gold and 12 to 15x on silver. I would lose my butt unless I double or triple the amount of buinsess all the other stores are doing. Then that would mean more employees, bigger more expensive location yada yada. Anyway my point is things that seem unfair often simply isnt. I mean It wouldnt seem fair for me to risk my familys livelyhood in order to pay people so much for their unwanted goods that i went bust would it? Ive twice grabbed peoples attention in banks when they were cashing in silver coins and either bought them for TONS more or gave them information to go elsewhere so im not without my feelings for fairness as well. But there is a lot more to people staying afloat and keeping their familys fed with a business. And remember, all of us on this forum are cashing in on peoples ignorance everytime we buy a silver coins at face.

Yeah I understand but what about the dealers who give better prices? I'm sure they have a way around it. My guess is that places like "Cash for Gold" spend a ton of extra money on advertising like TV ads and ads in local newspapers. Those aren't cheap just to get the attention. HSN or the Coin Vault who petal a bunch of overpriced coins probably pay a lot for the TV time to get the higher volume of people. I don't care what they charge for something. They shouldn't put stuff like "top prices paid" on their ads which is deceptive.

 

[rileyboy]

I said it once before and will say it again....The best place to get the highest return for your silver is at coin shows. There are usually many dealers buying silver and they are very competitive, so you can shop around the show and get the best price. All the dealers are usually very close at what they will offer and they all know they can't "low ball" anyone or they lose they credibility.
rileyboy

 

[ivan salis]

if a fair honest dealer is paying 12.5 x face --like mine is * and another dealer is paying 2.5 times face ( 20% of what a "honest dealer" is paying) and trust me the "honest dealer" is not losing any money or going broke on the deal he offers )--and if the 2.5 times face dealer is saying --oh ya I am paying top dollar --he is a bold faced liar * and he knows it --he is rooking folks and he knows it -- now if he just says my offer is 2.5 times face and says no more --he is still a greedy so and so but he is NOT lying * - 2.5 time face ---take it or leave it, your choice -- but he best not not try to pull the --I'm paying top dollar at 2.5 times face price * cause if he does he is lying thru his teeth and he knows it.

you want to be a total shyster and fleece folks ----fine that is your right -- to be a "dirtbag" dealer type of person -- so be it --but do not try to wear the cloak of a "respectible coin dealer" while doing so , you are what you are no matter how you try to candy coat it -----to make a "fair profiet" is one thing --to knowingly massively screw and take serious advange of folks is another thing -- scruples some got em , others don't.

yes we get sometimes get silver coins at a bank for "face value" -- but to the bank there just coins --so that is a differant matter

 

[65gt350]

Your views are valid but if an old lady goes into a coin shop asking what the items she has are worth I would say the dealer has an obligation to be honest. What he is willing to pay is his business. Would any of you lie to a friend or neighbor about what a coin was worth because you could?

Great question. What would you tell a friend or neighbor a 40% half is worth based on a spot of $30.29?

A) $4.00 (8x face)
B) $4.23 (Current Buy price from a large dealer $1.60 behind spot for a $1000 bag)
C) $4.38 (Current Sell price from a large dealer $-.55 behind spot for a $500 bag)
D) $4.47 (Melt)
E) $4.68 (Current Sell price from a large dealer +1.45 above spot for a $10 roll)

What would you then offer for it?

HH,
65GT350

 

[jim4silver]

if a fair honest dealer is paying 12.5 x face --like mine is * and another dealer is paying 2.5 times face ( 20% of what a "honest dealer" is paying) and trust me the "honest dealer" is not losing any money or going broke on the deal he offers )--and if the 2.5 times face dealer is saying --oh ya I am paying top dollar --he is a bold faced liar * and he knows it --he is rooking folks and he knows it -- now if he just says my offer is 2.5 times face and says no more --he is still a greedy so and so but he is NOT lying * - 2.5 time face ---take it or leave it, your choice -- but he best not not try to pull the --I'm paying top dollar at 2.5 times face price * cause if he does he is lying thru his teeth and he knows it.

you want to be a total shyster and fleece folks ----fine that is your right -- to be a "dirtbag" dealer type of person -- so be it --but do not try to wear the cloak of a "respectible coin dealer" while doing so , you are what you are no matter how you try to candy coat it -----to make a "fair profiet" is one thing --to knowingly massively screw and take serious advange of folks is another thing -- scruples some got em , others don't.

yes we get sometimes get silver coins at a bank for "face value" -- but to the bank there just coins --so that is a differant matter

Your answer shows how defining what is "fair and honest" is not possible, other than by way of opinion and not fact. The coin dealers I know pay about 20X face for 90% right now, thus I would look at your 12.5X as being way too low. However, because someone wants to pay less I am not going to say that they are not honest, because in a free market a person can set their own buy/sell prices. It is up to the customer to find the best price.


Jim

 

[ivan salis]

YES AT 12.5 it might be "low" but if its low --then what is 2.5 times ? -- theres low and outragously low --

 

[SFBayArea]

Your views are valid but if an old lady goes into a coin shop asking what the items she has are worth I would say the dealer has an obligation to be honest. What he is willing to pay is his business. Would any of you lie to a friend or neighbor about what a coin was worth because you could?

Great question. What would you tell a friend or neighbor a 40% half is worth based on a spot of $30.29?

A) $4.00 (8x face)
B) $4.23 (Current Buy price from a large dealer $1.60 behind spot for a $1000 bag)
C) $4.38 (Current Sell price from a large dealer $-.55 behind spot for a $500 bag)
D) $4.47 (Melt)
E) $4.68 (Current Sell price from a large dealer +1.45 above spot for a $10 roll)

What would you then offer for it?

HH,
65GT350

Usually I'll quote the price the dealer would be willing to pay for it. One teller who gave me some 40%ers for face value two months ago wanted to know if they were silver. She sold them to me for face for the answer. I told her "yes, they're 40% silver and they are worth around $3 each at that time." I told her from now on she knows and can keep the ones she finds. I always quote the general price that a dealer would offer if she went to a coin shop immediately and wanted cash on the spot.

Right now, I would just say $4 per 40%er. To make it exact say $4.15, would make it too complicated for people who don't know this stuff.

 

[fistfulladirt]

I always offer to buy at melt, from friends, family, and co-workers. I am a collector, and not out to "take" anyone or make big profit. If they want to do their homework, they will find that they are getting an honest deal.

 

[SFBayArea]

For honest dealers, they're not stupid. They rely on high amount of transactions to make money. They're not concerned with low balling people. They're just trying buy, sell, quickly and have a high turn around. Better prices bring more customers so you get more turn around. The ones that low ball people are ones that don't do that much volume like some off-beaten pawn shops that doesn't specialize in coins. I spoke to a dealer way back. He said he doesn't collect coins. If he did, he would have problems getting rid of stuff and can't make money. He's more concerned with turning stuff over. Getting stuff in and out as quick as possible. He was definitely one of the cooler dealers I've met.

 

[cheese]

Interesting. What if I'm standing in line at the bank and the lady next to me is depositing $200 worth of silver dollars to her checking account. I see this and I happen to have $400 in mad money, so I tell her, "don't cash those in, I'll give you $400 for them." and her eyes light up and she says, "Okay!". That's a lowball offer for sure, but maybe all I wanted to afford at the moment. I'd be happy to get them for that price. She is obviously happy to sell them for that price. Did I rip her off?

 

[fistfulladirt]

Interesting. What if I'm standing in line at the bank and the lady next to me is depositing $200 worth of silver dollars to her checking account. I see this and I happen to have $400 in mad money, so I tell her, "don't cash those in, I'll give you $400 for them." and her eyes light up and she says, "Okay!". That's a lowball offer for sure, but maybe all I wanted to afford at the moment. I'd be happy to get them for that price. She is obviously happy to sell them for that price. Did I rip her off?

If you offered her $400 for only $200 worth of silver, I would say that you were the one being ripped off.