Rutz Clovis

[RutzClovis]

My family and I have recently decided to look into what to do with the Rutz Clovis point, as far as I've been able to gather there is only one Clovis point bigger (that is, of the same length but slightly wider) that was found, but it seems that there is a bit of disagreement as to whether the newer find is authentic. I've letters from Gramly and Lithics Castings (among others) from a few years back, but am curious as to what kind of tech advancements could be used to study the piece or what price we could be looking at for the thing if we do decide to sell it. I mean, what would you guys do with it? We're trying to figure out where to even start.





-D

 

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[wvwildman]

sell it are you crazy

 

[RutzClovis]

sell it are you crazy

I won't lie that's going to be the most likely option, but where does one even start with this kind of thing?

 

[Tnmountains]

I have posted the link in this section with the lithic casting of it and the story please join in

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/north-american-artifacts/336525-rutz-clovis.html#post3178865
TnMtns

 

[wvwildman]

i dont sell anything that i find but im sure someone on here could tell ya it might be worth 1000's if it is real it could be a plant that someone made to and buried in the ground people do that these days

 

[flinthunter]

I guess my first question is how did you come to be in possesion of such a rare and valuable artifact? The answer to that might help decide if the point is real or a casting. Lithics Castings made a large amount of reproduction castings from the original and it is dificult to tell that they are not real stone. If this is the authentic point then sale price should be in the 6 figure range.

Quote(I've letters from Gramly and Lithics Castings (among others) from a few years back, but am curious as to what kind of tech advancements could be used to study the piece ) Quote

Unless something has changed in the last several years the hydration test is the best way to determine old knapped obsidian from newly knapped obsidian, but the only way to do the test is to break off a small piece of the artifact and I don't think you want to do that.

 

[RutzClovis]

Far as I've been told by my mother, Les the gentleman who found it was a friend of the family, and that's how we got the thing in the first place (my father has a small collection of arrowheads though nothing of this magnitude). I know about the casts because I have some of the letters between Lithic/Bostrom and my mother negotiating us sending him the piece as well as some packing and shipping notes from sending it to him and Gramly. They actually gave us a cast as well as a copy of the poster that Bostrom was working on they gave us in thanks. Maybe if I can get the thing down I'll take some comparison pictures of the point next to the cast. Essentially since it was last tested and they found the blood on it, and since it was cast we've kept it in a safe place until such a time as we wanted to do something with it, or there was a big enough breakthrough we felt like there could be more information pulled from it.
-D

 

[wvwildman]

but the ? is are you sure you got right one back and not a copy thats what you should be worried about not saying i dont believe you

 

[RutzClovis]

-So I just got some clarification from my mom, apparently the point was found by her father's cousin and given to her dad, I'd always assumed it was given to mom/pop because of dad's interest in arrowheads.

-As to the question of whether we got back a fake from Lithic? My mom actually contacted Stanford and Gramly and a couple others before she even considered sending the point out to Bostrom. I know that they wouldn't have endangered it by letting us send it to someone who was less than reputable, especially since the blood that was found on it was "too degraded" to be conclusively tested (with the then current technology) as to whether it was mammoth or possibly human even though it was conclusively dated with the other arrowheads found in Wenatchee by Gramly in the same time period.

-She said she talked to DC Walfdorf who said the point was really interesting because it looked like it was resharpened and actually used (which we could tell from the blood found) which is rare for most points of this size.

 

[flinthunter]

Thank you for the history on how you came to own the clovis. Very interesting. Ok, so now we can say that this is the original found artifact and not a cast. If its actually a true old clovis and not a newly knapped piece, high end collectors would pay a huge amount for it. My problem with it is the blood you say is still on it. To me the blood issue throws up a number of red flags. I just don't see it being possible for traces of blood that have been exposed to the elements for 12,000 - 14,000 years to survive on a piece of stone. I am afraid the blood issue would scare off a lot of potential buyers, I know it would me, but this is just my opinion. Thanks for showing the point.

 

[RutzClovis]

Honestly I thought that was crazy too but they found blood on other points found in the Wenatchee area as well so apparently it's not uncommon for them to be able to find blood on things that old, at the very least it never sent up a red flag to Gramly or any of the other labs that had it; everyone who handled it said it was completely authentic (Gramly, Stanford, the Waldorf's, Bostrom).