Senner's Gold topic...

[Cubfan64]

Just a placeholder for folks who are interested in the Senner's Gold story. There's not much documentation on this, but it's been talked about on the board lately so here's a place to discuss

 

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[Idahodutch]

Just a placeholder for folks who are interested in the Senner's Gold story. There's not much documentation on this, but it's been talked about on the board lately so here's a place to discuss

Good morning Cubfan64,
Somebody mentioned something about a map, a diary.... I am not real familiar with the particular clues, .... or if they exist.
I am not saying the contrary, just stating my knowledge base for the subject ... which is not much.

Is there a map?
I googled Senners gold and there is a book about it.
I think Chasing Legends on YouTube has an episode for it too.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Cubfan,

The Al Senner story came about when Tom Kollenborn found an old diary in the attic of a Prescott home in the early 1960's. The diary told the story of a miner who highgraded gold ore from the Mammoth mine and caches it atop Superstition Mountain. Kollenborn gave the diary to Helen Corbin who wrote a book about the story titled Senners Gold.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Tom Kollenborn also wrote an article on Senner titled, Al Senners Lost Gold of Superstition Mountain which I believe appears in the book Superstition MountaIn written by Tom Kollenborn and James Swanson. There is a map in Helen Corbins book.

Tom told me he knew the people who lived in the Prescott home and there was going to be an estate sale there and he was asked to come up ahead of the sale and get first choice on things. He found the diary with some books in the attic and bought them. The house once belonged, or still belonged to Dr. Amos Basset family, the man who amputated Al Senner's arm. Somehow the Katie, Senners girlfriend, also lived in that house possibly as a housekeeper.

 

[Cubfan64]

Thanks for the info. Matthew - I didn't know the specifics of how the Senner story got to Tom. I just realized this really doesn't belong in the LDM section of the forum - there is another subcategory for Superstition Mountain legends so I'm going to see if I can either move it or have the admins move it there.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Thanks for the info. Matthew - I didn't know the specifics of how the Senner story got to Tom. I just realized this really doesn't belong in the LDM section of the forum - there is another subcategory for Superstition Mountain legends so I'm going to see if I can either move it or have the admins move it there.

Cubfan,

If you want to get right down to it there is only about 15% of the posts in the Lost Dutchman Mine forum that actually have anything to do with the Lost Dutchuman Mine. I've tried numerous times to get non related posts moved with no luck. Threads are at the mercy of whoever posts whatever they want unless moderators enforce the rules and guidelines.

 

[Cubfan64]

Cubfan,

If you want to get right down to it there is only about 15% of the posts in the Lost Dutchman Mine forum that actually have anything to do with the Lost Dutchuman Mine. I've tried numerous times to get non related posts moved with no luck. Threads are at the mercy of whoever posts whatever they want unless moderators enforce the rules and guidelines.

Yeah I suppose you're right, but I wanted to at least try to move a blatantly non-LDM topic out of that area. It looks like I was successful this time

 

[KANACKI]

Hola Amigos

Anyone interested in researching the Al Senner legend should first question did the key people in the story exist to begin with?

Kanacki

 

[somehiker]

Hola Amigos

Anyone interested in researching the Al Senner legend should first question did the key people in the story exist to begin with?

Kanacki

According to Tom Kollenborn. as mentioned by Matthew in his second post in this thread, they did exist.

 

[Cubfan64]

Markmar - I noticed you deleted one of your posts in the LDM thread where you offered to give directions to Senner's Gold in exchange for vindication that you know exactly where it is located. I will be out there this fall for a week or so and am willing to follow your directions and take "boots on the ground" photos of whatever I find where you direct me to go. Let me know if you're interested - I would assume the opportunity to know for a fact that your directions lead to something of value would be a wonderful achievement - I know I would tip my hat to you.

 

[markmar]

Markmar - I noticed you deleted one of your posts in the LDM thread where you offered to give directions to Senner's Gold in exchange for vindication that you know exactly where it is located. I will be out there this fall for a week or so and am willing to follow your directions and take "boots on the ground" photos of whatever I find where you direct me to go. Let me know if you're interested - I would assume the opportunity to know for a fact that your directions lead to something of value would be a wonderful achievement - I know I would tip my hat to you.

Paul, I'm glad you have expressed the interest to follow my direction to the Senner's gold. This is a honor for me, and I will do the best to don't disappoint you.
When you will be ready to do your preparations for this trip, just PM me your email to send you the details.

 

[Dirt1955]

Tom Kollenborn also wrote an article on Senner titled, Al Senners Lost Gold of Superstition Mountain which I believe appears in the book Superstition MountaIn written by Tom Kollenborn and James Swanson. There is a map in Helen Corbins book.

Tom told me he knew the people who lived in the Prescott home and there was going to be an estate sale there and he was asked to come up ahead of the sale and get first choice on things. He found the diary with some books in the attic and bought them. The house once belonged, or still belonged to Dr. Amos Basset family, the man who amputated Al Senner's arm. Somehow the Katie, Senners girlfriend, also lived in that house possibly as a housekeeper.

As usual, Matthew Roberts has the story right. Tom Kollenborn researched the story and believed in it enough to go up that mountain and check it out. That's good enough for me. Senner could have buried the high grade ore anywhere on that mountain. It's either been found long ago, or still waiting for the right rock to be turned over.

 

[somehiker]

As usual, Matthew Roberts has the story right. Tom Kollenborn researched the story and believed in it enough to go up that mountain and check it out. That's good enough for me. Senner could have buried the high grade ore anywhere on that mountain. It's either been found long ago, or still waiting for the right rock to be turned over.

As I recall, Tom and Bob orbin made several trips up the mountain ....three I believe.....in search of Senner's gold.
They both talked about it at the Rendezvous on a couple of occasions. Tom had known where the bodies of Senner and his horses had been found, as well as the trail he had used to ride to the top. The trail used by hikers to access Flatiron is not suitable for horses etc. Tom also used Senner's trail for many years when riding to the peak, in order to fly the flag on Memorial day.

Tom wrote this some years ago.....

"Senner's Gold Tom Kollenborn

Another interesting story about a burial site in the wilderness area is the alleged grave of Alfred Senner. There is little documentation that Senner actually existed, yet there is enough information about this man to believe he did indeed exist. A story is told about a burial site high up in Monument Canyon where Senner body supposedly came to a rest after plunging over a 2,000 foot ledge where he, his riding horse and pack animal went over the edge during a snow storm. Senner supposedly high-graded (stole) rich gold ore from the old Mammoth Mine and cached it somewhere on Superstition Mountain above Goldfield. The story was Senner fell while trying to retrieve his cache of high-grade gold ore from the top of Superstition Mountain. Is it fact or legend? Who knows for sure? "



Tom Kollenborn Chronicles: Memorial Day on Superstition Mountain

 

[cuzimloony]

I remember thinking the whole time I hiked up to Flatiron, "How in the world did anyone get a horse up here" It is absolutely impossible for a horse to be able to go up Siphon Draw (the name of the trail) to Flatiron, which had me doubting the story. I have a buddy here locally that swore to me that Tom took his horse up there, but I just kept saying "no-way man." Now that I know Senner used an alternate route, I wonder where it was. It must be south of Flatiron, because north (siphon draw) you find yourself climbing up vertical cliff faces at times......

 

[cuzimloony]

I remember thinking the whole time I hiked up to Flatiron, "How in the world did anyone get a horse up here" It is absolutely impossible for a horse to be able to go up Siphon Draw (the name of the trail) to Flatiron, which had me doubting the story. I have a buddy here locally that swore to me that Tom took his horse up there, but I just kept saying "no-way man." Now that I know Senner used an alternate route, I wonder where it was. It must be south of Flatiron, because north (siphon draw) you find yourself climbing up vertical cliff faces at times......

Yes I'm replying to myself. Just re-watched the Senners Gold video with Jack San Felice and he tells you exactly where that trail is..............

 

[gollum]

Kraig,

I know that is the generally accepted version of what happened, but that is not the story that Tom told some of us several years ago.

Tom said a lady from (IIRC) The Globe Historical Society called him one day and said that they just received a donation of a chest. In that chest was a diary that she believed Tom might find interesting. THAT is where Tom said the diary came from. I know its not as romantic or interesting as finding it behind the floor molding in an old home in Prescott., but there you go. The only other person that I remember was there when we were talking about it was Bob Corbin. The only possible way for the generally accepted story to have happened would have been for the chest to have been found in the house, and then given to the Globe Historical Society, but either way Tom was not the one that found it.

Three people beat that story to death for about ten years were Tom Kollenborn, Bob Corbin, and Ron Feldman. I had always believed that if THOSE THREE (LOL) spent ten years on a story that only involves only a small area, then it was either BS or they found it and kept it quiet, which to me made sense because they wouldn't have a book published on the subject if they were still looking for it. After Tom passed, I was speaking to Bob Corbin the evening of his Memorial at LDSP (Lost Dutchman State Park), and I specifically asked him about it. Bob told me in no uncertain terms that none of them had found it, and it is still on Flatiron somewhere.

Regarding how he got the horse up to Flatiron; the back way across Massacre Grounds is the way to take a horse to the top. I did hear a great theory that Potbelly Jim had. He thinks it is possible that the rich float ore that Silverlock & Malm found at Massacre Grounds was actually a stash of some of Senner's Gold. Since the entire story about the cavalry sergeant (don't remember his name) found a skeleton under a bush that was dressed and had a small poke tucked under his belt containing hand cobbled rich ore was complete BS, I give Jim's Idea a lot of weight. There is a crap-ton more evidence of The Senner Story than anything to do with a Mexican Massacre there.

Don't get me wrong. I found the family of Pedro Peralta (lone massacre survivor). The family didn't know anything about the massacre (they were all from Pedro's Wife's side of the family, so they didn't know a ton about the Peralta Side). They said that for some reason, Pedro suddenly left Sonora, and moved to the area around Cabo San Lucas at the Southern Tip of Baja Mexico, where he met and married their Great Grandmother. He would never even travel to Sonora as he thought there was some kind of family curse (wouldn't explain). Any relatives that wanted to visit had to go to Baja.

Mike

 

[Idahodutch]

Paul, I'm glad you have expressed the interest to follow my direction to the Senner's gold. This is a honor for me, and I will do the best to don't disappoint you.
When you will be ready to do your preparations for this trip, just PM me your email to send you the details.

I have been curious to see what has become of this recovery trek.
Markmar, is this still on the table, for someone to check out?

I am not in a position to do much of anything about it, but perhaps there are others that would ….. unless it worked out for Cubfan to make the hike?

Idahodutch

 

[markmar]

I have been curious to see what has become of this recovery trek.
Markmar, is this still on the table, for someone to check out?

I am not in a position to do much of anything about it, but perhaps there are others that would ….. unless it worked out for Cubfan to make the hike?

Idahodutch

It's on Cubfan64 to decide if someone else will do the discovery trip if he will be not able to do it, unless he don't trust or hesitate and give it back to me.

 

[Idahodutch]

It's on Cubfan64 to decide if someone else will do the discovery trip if he will be not able to do it, unless he don't trust or hesitate and give it back to me.

Good man markmar 👍😁
I hope cubfan64 is able to make it.

 

[Dozer2244]

I have researched this stor for 4 years.
I have had boots on the ground and have backtracked Tom's exact route enmven to his campsite back in the 80s when Bob and Tom went up there.