Setting up a Ryedale for wheat pennies only?

[placerman]

1) Is there a way to do this? If so can you explain it to me pea brain?

2) The plan would be to sort the coppers first, then go back through the coins, sorting for wheats and maybe indians if there is a way to do that...

3) What do you think? Is it possible?

 

[snappy]

I don't think so.. I do a double sort keep zinc reject the rest. Then run the rest again using a copper keep. The rejects from this run will be missed zinc, 1943-1946 wheats, and 1930 wheats and earlier, indians and foregin. Not all the wheats from these years will be rejected maybe 1/3rd will. and about the same % of canadian's will. After I do the 2 sort (copper keep) I hand sort to remove caniadian's and wheats.

 

[jrf30]

answers.

1) no. Becuase it sorts by metal content. It can not distinguish between a 1958 wheat and a 1965 memorial. They both are the same composition.

BUT - the wheats older than 1943 many times are a different quality of copper, and DO separate out. So, you COULD separate only the ones older than 1943 (1909 - 1942 plus IHs) But since that is such a small amount of the total wheats found it would not be worth it.

2) Can't do it, and not worth it for the older ones only. What I do is as I separate, I watch the reject tray. It gets all the xincs, PLUS those aforementioned older wheats and IHs. I just keep my eyes ont hat side. The rare one that goes there I pull out as I am separating. After I am done separating, I then look at all the coppers. Just pour them out and turn them over. It goes pretty quick. I pull all the wheats (Which is mostly 1944 through 1958, with a rare one before that) and throw the copper ones in a box to sell off in the future again. YOu can sell $50 of copper for about $80 on ebay now, but I am holding out. Last year I could sell $50 for $130, and I'd like ot get at least $100 for a bag now. So I"m hoarding until the price goes back up some, and then will sell. But if you are tight on space or money, you can sell NOW at $80 and be done with it. They ship in a flat rate box, and buyer pays shipping.

3) Not possible, but do what I said above and you'll have all the old wheats out and then all the other wheats out, and miss almost nothing. PLus by not running them through the machine a second time you are saving the wear and tear on the machine. Belive me, the machine wears out more than you'd think. I have replaced numerous parts already, and it is not that it is breaking. Just wearing with use. Not doing hte work twice makes the machine last twice as long. :-)

Good luck with it. It is an AWESOME machine, and I LOVE my Ryedale!

 

[FingerGrime]

Not with a Rydale.
I have often considered making a machine that would do this though. I could use a combination of the Rydale method (using inductive coupling) and some sort of imaging method. I could then compare certain features in the image of the current coin to features expected in the coins I am looking for (i.e. wheats). I could either look for certain years or a certain reverse design. Of course I would have to be able to deal with coins of varying conditions. (A red cent vs a brown one). I haven't quite figured out a suitable method of getting the image of a coin yet though. It would be really sweet if I could make such a machine though...

 

[jrf30]

I think an imaging factor would slow the machine down considerably.

Probably faster to do it the current way, with sorting through the coppers by hand after the machine is done and looking that way.

But a cool idea! :-)

 

[TxTim]

My Ryedale never sees wheat.

I presort the wheats, IH's and bad pennies before they hit the hopper.

 

[acute collector]

you guys know how to ajust sensitivity on th compairator?

 

[jrf30]

you guys know how to ajust sensitivity on th compairator?

You can adjust it, but not for wheat versus other copper pennies, since they are the same composition. You either get both, or you get neither. But you can't get one and not the other.

 

[RW]

Of course it can be done! The directions that come with it tell you exactly how to do it. It is possible because the older wheats have some tin in them. Calibrate to a true copper penny and then sort. You will see the wheats come out with the zincs. Then calibrate to a fresh new zinc, and the wheats will get rejected. Lots of people are doing it. You might have to make a slight adjustment, but it is a simple thing (in the directions).

 

[jrf30]

That works for the older wheats, which are 1942 or lolder. But the question was about wheats in general. The 1942 and older wheats ALREADY get separated out from the copper, as you corretly stated. But the wheats that are from 1944 to 1958 are the same as the copper memorials form 1959 tio 1982, and can not to my knowledge be separated out.

You are talking only about the 1942 and older wheats, which are a very low portion of total wheats found (And already separate on their own).

YOu can't get the newer wheats to separate though, which is what he asked.

 

[placerman]

Alright, say I have 1,000,000 pennies....

I run them through my Ryedale (with the 1974 cent in the machine that it came with) and am left with a bucket containing 210,000 "copper" cents, and another bucket containing 790,000 "zinc" cents.

Where will the wheat cents be? Will they all be in one bucket or the other or will some be in one bucket and some in the other, based on the year minted (and the composition of the cent)?

I am assuming that based on the various compositions of the cents from 1854 to now, that ALL the pre-1982 cents would be in one bucket but apparently this is not true.



Once they (the coppers) have been separated from the zinc cents, do you have any further use for the zincs, other than to turn them into the banks for cash?

As jrf30, said, I don't think it would be worth it as far as wear and tear on the Ryedale to go through them twice just for a few wheat cents, but I would like to assured that as much wheat cents as possible were in my copper pile as possible.

Ive tried to make sense and explain what I'm trying to figure out...

Thanks guys. I really do appreciate all the input.

 

[jrf30]

let me give you the answers to those specific questions. :-)

Using your numbers, you will have 210,000 pennies in the "copper" bucket, and 790,000 pennies in the "reject" bucket. It is NOT the "zinc" bucket. It is anything that is not the same as the 1974 copper penny you are using as your control. (By the way, I'd replace that 1974 with a 1981, as there was a little issue with quality from 1974 through 1979 on some pennies. Not many, but it is safer to use the 1981 instead of anything from the 70's. That's what I've been told anyway.)

The copper side will contain copper pennies from 1944 through 1982. It could have a few older ones in it, but not many. Of the 210,000, I'd say you would have about 3,000 wheats and the rest will be memorials.

On the reject side will be your zinc, your older wheat pennies (maybe 50 if you are lucky. And that is in a MILLION pennies through the machine), any steel war pennies, all IH pennies, any dimes that came in the rolls accidentially and some foriegn coins. Notice it is MUCH more than just "zinc". But, your older wheat pennies WILL be in THIS bucket. Hence the problem.

Some people run this batch a second time, using a zinc pennny as the control. I decided a while back that it was a waste of time and too much wear and tear on the machine to do it twice. So as I sort the pennies, I keep an eye on the reject bucket while it is working. I SEE the older pennies and foreign coins that pop out and if they are wheat or IHs I grab them while the machine is still working. That takes care of having to do the double sort. I don't care about dimes, because they are going back to the bank anyway. When the coins are done running, I then take the reject side back to the bank. I then take the copper side and sort them by hand. I do that because although the machine CAN sort the old wheats out, it will NOT sort out the 1944 - 1958 wheats from the 1959 - 1982 memorials. They have too close of a same composition. So I turn them all over, in a hurried manner, and pull the wheats out. The wheats I mark by year and put in rolls, and the memorials I put in penny boxes and store until the time comes I start selling again on ebay. Then I"ll sell off the copper again.

That is how I sort one time and get almost all the wheats and IH pennies out. I amit I might miss a few. Of the 50 "older" wheats that go tot he reject side, I bet I find 47 of them anyway. So, to go through the reject sice again on 790,000 pennies ot find maybe 3 (or even TEN!) older wheats is just not worth it. If I go through 790,000 NEW pennies, I'll get about 40 older ones (instead of 3) PLUS the 2,500 or so wheats that come from teh new batch. Make sense? YOU'll get more by going to new rolls and new coins instead of spending the time getting the few remaining ones that you might have missed. And after doing this for a while, you get pretty good at seeing the older ones as they pop out into the reject side. :-)

So to answer your question, MOST of the wheats will be on the copper side, with the 210,000 coins. Some of the wheats (the oldest and best ones) will be in the reject bucket, and hopefully you were able to keep an eye on it to sort most of them as they fell into it.

By the way, I have found that my coin hopper gets indented with a groove on the bottom of it about every 1,000,000 coins, so you have to buy a new one every 1,000,000 coins. Running 790,000 of the first 1,000,000 a second time means spending MONEY to find some coins that will give you ... about as much as it costs to keep the machine running. Just not worth it. Give me new batches, and I'll run those instead. :-) The coin feeding plate needs replaced about every 500,000 coins. And it needs cleaned often. But running an additional 790,000 coins through to get maybe 5 - 10 missed wheats doesn't make sense to "me". I'll find tons more copper, wheats AND older wheats by running a new batch of 790,000 more coins in that same timeframe.

Just keep your eyes on the reject bucket as you run it though. YOu'd hate to miss that rare IH that at times comes out on that side. :-)

That answer what you wanted?

 

[placerman]

jrf30,

Thank you very much for the thorough explanation. That was exactly what I was looking for.

I kind of feel like Forrest Gump when he said "Mama always had a way of explaining things so I could understand them".

Just replace Mama with jrf30...

LOL

Take care and thanks again.

 

[Ryedale]

I doubt I sent the machine out with a 1974. Of all the years I would not use, 1974 comes to mind first.
Most likely it was a 1979 or a 1981, as I recieved some bank wrapped rolls that were brand new, all the same year rolls from 79 and 81, and set these aside for "reference" coins sent with new machines.

I have found very often that coins from 1974 are rejected because of some alloy difference in the starting material (rolls of sheet copper) from that year. Keep in mind in 1974 they had a high copper price and the mint/treasury experimented with other metals including striking the Lincoln Cent with aluminum.

I'm sure some if not most 1974's are ok, but from my experience I see way too many to trust them as my "steady date" when selecting sample/reference coins.

My logic is to select a copper coin of the newest variety, like 79,80,81,82 (known copper 82 of course). I do this because I have rarely if ever seen a late year copper get rejected, however I see plenty of 1974's rejected on a "copper keep"

BTW, have you guys seen the new videos on youtube to keep your Ryedale running smoothly? I got a high speed Casio camera that can take up to 1000 FPS. The videos at youtube are filmed at 420 FPS, and show much detail about the SnP assembly which is the part that gives Ryedale users fits with jamming sometimes. The videos go a long way to help owners, and I've had many reports of "Eureka" moments after watching the video and lubing with Dri-Slide lubricant.

Thanks for all the great comments about the machines here. I don't get here often enough.
Andy

 

[AGCoinHunter]

From the man himself. Andy, I wish I had the time/resources to justify buying a apprentice. I have the ace and love it but always wonder what could I do with a apprentice. Still enjoy sorting with my ace though. Good little machine.

 

[Ryedale]

From the man himself. Andy, I wish I had the time/resources to justify buying a apprentice. I have the ace and love it but always wonder what could I do with a apprentice. Still enjoy sorting with my ace though. Good little machine.

Thanks AG,
I'm glad to hear the Ace is working for you. I'm still proceeding slowly with them, I didn't want to get 100 of them out there only to find out people are bummed out by it, or that it changed (degraded) from initial setup.
I've heard of one guy getting $800 through his Ace in about 8 weeks.
How many are you doing?
I'm still debating building a small crank style handle and cradle (feeder) for the Ace, it would eliminate feeding each coin by hand. I would have to design, test, prove, etc before offering it, but I may make it to fit the Ace as it is now so it wouldn't need any re-design, just possibly an "option" for the Ace.
We'll see how much time I have.

 

[AGCoinHunter]

I figure I have only done about $250 - $300 in it since I bought it. Time has been my biggest holdup. Just as long as its sitting on a level surface it works like a charm. I wanted to devise a automated feeder just dont have the time.... Maybe one day I will move up to the apprentice.

 

[jonhls]

Andy
I got my eureka moment from your e-mail reply.After cleaning the snl I have ran 250.00 without a single jam.It made a world of difference.I am curious about frequerncy of replacement parts.dp jrf's numbers seem about right to you.I'm kinda surprised the coin wheel would wear that bad that quickly.Also curious about another issue,it seems our illustrious leaders are contimplating the steel cent again.Did i see correctly that the steel cents go to the reject bin.....if they change composition and the weight of new pennies comes out close to the copper wieght how will that affect us....hopefully they just stop producing pennies and then lift melt ban.....

 

[Ryedale]

Andy
I got my eureka moment from your e-mail reply.After cleaning the snl I have ran 250.00 without a single jam.It made a world of difference.I am curious about frequerncy of replacement parts.dp jrf's numbers seem about right to you.I'm kinda surprised the coin wheel would wear that bad that quickly.Also curious about another issue,it seems our illustrious leaders are contimplating the steel cent again.Did i see correctly that the steel cents go to the reject bin.....if they change composition and the weight of new pennies comes out close to the copper wieght how will that affect us....hopefully they just stop producing pennies and then lift melt ban.....

Wheels and cups should last between 500,000 and 1.5 million coins through the machine without having to replace, some have gone longer, it just depends on how tight the factory moldings are, it also depends on how clean/dirty the coins are going through the machine. Cups and wheels are like brakes on the car, but for every $5000 to $15000 processed you may need $20 worth of parts and a bottle of Dri-Slide should last you and the next generation of your family a lifetime (cups and wheels are $10 Each Dri-Slide is about $17 delivered, but you can use it on your guns or bikes, motorcycles etc.)

If the mint switches to a steel coin, no worries, the machine is already removing the Canadian steel pennies with very good accuracy. Remember... it does'nt work on weight, it works on alloy content.
Andy

 

[XX]

There are coin validators out there that will "optically" scan the coin. They will roll the coin 360° while taking a single point optical scan at some specified diameter on the coin.

It will then compare the scan to a set of stored reference scans.

If one were inclined to do the research, one could take the time and money to order one of these coin validators from europe, set it up to accept on the lincoln memorial and reject all else, then report back to us on the reliability and speed of their setup, the rest of us would greatly appreciate it.

My guess is that the reliability would be high and the speed would be moderate.

One could then use the Ryedale to sort the rejects on a copper accept and then visually scrutinize the rejects for older wheats, canadian, foreign, etc...