Signs, signs, everywhere there’s signs…, breaking my mind…

[Jeff95531]

I decided to take Clay up on his challenge to find some gold sites near the Golf Course very close to where I live. As a lot of you know, I am in extreme N CA, off highway 101 and near the Smith River. I checked the area thoroughly on Land Matters and set off to find some good ground with a solid plan and plenty of sample buckets.

I headed North from Crescent City on 101 and turned right on 197. The Smith runs right along 197 all the way to 199. I’ve always been interested in what’s to the left of 197 (river on the right) as lots of forest and most all of the mountains are running south to north. So the very first opportunity to take a left I do and what do I find? Nothing but gates and signs.







This continues the entire way to the Golf Course, except for the rare privately owned property. My wife said this area has been off- limits for a very long time (you cannot even legally walk in) but never knew why.
Just before I pass the Golf Course and turn left on Low Divide road I spot this and think hmmm, this looks promising…




But as we go up on Low Divide, we get even more of the same signs and a few new ones…





If you look at a map, you will see that there are 1000’s of acres in this “forbidden zone.” Green Diamond Resource Company controls 99% of the area/access and maybe 1% is claimed and/or privately owned. I don’t know what (if anything) I (we) can do about this but it REALLY Pi**** ME OFF and I’m getting Dam sick of it. So, I thought I would begin by posting this up. I did look up Green Diamond on goggle and found nothing about getting written permission for free as all I found were permits fees and they cost big bucks. WTF

 

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[DigIron2]

man that's some sh.. right there.Me and my dad use to fish this local pond,best fishing hole in town,kept it clean from trash and the hole nine yards.Guess someone didn't like itnext thing we know there's wild life management signs.*******s

 

[2cmorau]

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2003/601regs.pdf

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2013/601eia.pdf

Pay to play Green Diamond: Recreation Access Permit Program - KMAS NewsRadio
wanna job https://www.facebook.com/pages/Green-Diamond-Resource-Company/133728486678741

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Looks like it is private land, right?

 

[goldenIrishman]

Well what is the overall status of the land there Jeff? USFS? BLM? If they're public lands and some big company has got them locked up then I'd be raising some big stink about it.

As miners, even with a valid mining claim, we are required to share the area(s) we claim with other users. As long as they're not digging on my claim, I welcome other outdoorsy folk no problem. Doesn't matter to me if they're hiking, mountain biking, hunting or whatever, they're welcome to share the land I have claimed. I can see no reason that some big resource company shouldn't be required do the same. I would seriously be looking into this if I were you. If it is public land, start asking questions at all levels and find out why one permitted user is allowed to lock it up when others are required to share. Something stinks on this and the air is in need of a good clearing.

Another couple of thoughts here.... If it IS public lands and their charging for permits to use it, where is the money going? Also get the maps for the area that predate 1976 and see if those roads are shown on them. If they are and you want to fight for it, you could be able to force them to reopen them because they're grandfathered in public thoroughfares. They may be able to gate off sections off the road, but the entire road itself.... I doubt it. May have been a money saving thing for Green Diamond since it's less costly to put up one gate than several.

I'm going to look them up on the web as well and see what I can dig up on the company. Something here just doesn't smell right

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Looks to be about as private as it gets https://greendiamond.com/recreation/ and I didn't find anything about allowing prospecting, even with a paid permit.

 

[Slingshot]

Golf courses are a cancer and blight upon the land. They should all be dug out then turned over to the Air Force to use as bombing ranges. Just the way I feel about them. Cheers!!

 

[goldenIrishman]

It does indeed look like it's all private land. Their usage permits are ridiculously high priced but if they actually do business as advertised on their site, it looks like they may not be a bad company.

I'd still be checking the maps on those roads. If they used to connect to areas that are still accessible by other roads and are on maps from before 1976 they might be considered as public roads. If so, Green Diamond can only gate off the access points onto their property(ies).

 

[Oregon Viking]

Green Diamond owns a lot of land, with access starting a mile up a road behind my place (CAL/OR border). The south fork of the Winchuck river runs through their property. There is a road that will take you to rowdy creek, gated both ends. A few years back logging trucks were rolling down the road...I stopped one and asked about access. He said Green Diamond truck about 10 minutes behind me. I asked about their property, was told no hunting, fishing trespassing etc. They seem to be like South Coast Lumber, 950,000 acres that they sometimes....if there has been substantial rain... open the gates for hunting season. All private.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Look at the hunting end of it. Over 100 acres per vehicle permit. I bet a lot of folks would find that a cheap hunt.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Green Diamond is all private land Jeff. You need to get past there.

Look above the first fork on Peacock Creek. You can hike up past the state land or take the road north of the "cancer and blight upon the land". Look for the 4wd road on the right, there is one on Forest managed land.

Heavy Pans

 

[Peyton Manning]

sounds like AREA 52 to me!

 

[Goldwasher]

I Like golf courses!

 

[Jeff95531]

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2003/601regs.pdf

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/2013/601eia.pdf

Pay to play Green Diamond: Recreation Access Permit Program - KMAS NewsRadio
wanna job https://www.facebook.com/pages/Green-Diamond-Resource-Company/133728486678741

Thank you very much for the informative links 2cmorau. The comments from the people in WA state says it all. So if I understand what happened...

CA owns (or did own?) lets say 20,000 acres off 197.
They have too much land (or not enough $) to manage it so they lease all of it to Green Diamond for $2400.
CA will allow hunting on this land but you have to buy a permit from them.
Blue Diamond will allow access but you have to buy a permit from them.
Since Blue Diamond can bail out with a ten day notice, it sounds like a lease but that lease can run indefinitely provided both parties agree.

With this understanding, it sounds like just one more way to take an indefinite amount of public lands and access away and charge fees from both parties to restore any limited use and access. At this point, it seems all I can do is inform PLP of the situation and see if anything can be done about this....past, present and future.

As John would say...sic sic sic

 

[Jeff95531]

Green Diamond is all private land Jeff. You need to get past there.

Look above the first fork on Peacock Creek. You can hike up past the state land or take the road north of the "cancer and blight upon the land". Look for the 4wd road on the right, there is one on Forest managed land.

Heavy Pans

Thank you Clay! I did have my eyes on Peacock and I know the road you speak of as it was where we finally turned around. The GPS showed the boundary as green indicating USFS. I will check it out next time. On the Land Matters site, I found a side road off Low Divide to get close to the lower end of the creek, but the road was private and on private property. Am I wrong to expect the land Green Diamond has in it's possession (and personal property owners) should be shaded in white?

 

[Jeff95531]

Green Diamond owns a lot of land, with access starting a mile up a road behind my place (CAL/OR border). The south fork of the Winchuck river runs through their property. There is a road that will take you to rowdy creek, gated both ends. A few years back logging trucks were rolling down the road...I stopped one and asked about access. He said Green Diamond truck about 10 minutes behind me. I asked about their property, was told no hunting, fishing trespassing etc. They seem to be like South Coast Lumber, 950,000 acres that they sometimes....if there has been substantial rain... open the gates for hunting season. All private.

Yep, so now we know this can be and is done to at least all West Coast states.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Thank you Clay! I did have my eyes on Peacock and I know the road you speak of as it was where we finally turned around. The GPS showed the boundary as green indicating USFS. I will check it out next time. On the Land Matters site, I found a side road off Low Divide to get close to the lower end of the creek, but the road was private and on private property. Am I wrong to expect the land Green Diamond has in it's possession (and personal property owners) should be shaded in white?

Private lands are not colored on the Land Matters maps Jeff. With time, space and money we hope to bring some definition to the private lands too but for the foreseeable future private lands will not have any coloring.

The Green Diamond land is private - not leased state land. The $2000 is the fee for a permit to run a hunting preserve on private land.

Heavy Pans

 

[Jeff95531]

Okay, so it took a little while for me to understand that no "crime" has been committed...that the thousands upon thousands of prime forest is literally "owned" by Green Diamond and the only reason CA is involved is to ensure the timber is harvested according to CA regs and the fish and elk populations are maintained or enhanced. This also applies to WA and OR.

Is this right?

If it is, I have only one question left...

Green Diamond...how the did you get so rich? I thought only a state could get their hands on so much land.

 

[goldenIrishman]

If it is, I have only one question left...

Green Diamond...how the did you get so rich? I thought only a state could get their hands on so much land.

LOL Maybe by overcharging for access permits and their lumber products? From what I saw on their site, they've been around a long time and have had years to build their assets up.

 

[fowledup]

Okay, so it took a little while for me to understand that no "crime" has been committed...that the thousands upon thousands of prime forest is literally "owned" by Green Diamond and the only reason CA is involved is to ensure the timber is harvested according to CA regs and the fish and elk populations are maintained or enhanced. This also applies to WA and OR.

Is this right?

If it is, I have only one question left...

Green Diamond...how the did you get so rich? I thought only a state could get their hands on so much land.

Nope- largest land owner in California is Sierra Pacific Industries, which is another logging company