Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

roswellborn

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Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Since the thread is titled "Why" I believe, I probably should go there, first. I don't know if I "believe," per se, but I do know there are a LOT of things we humans have no clue about.

Remember the Caelocanth? (sp!) "Everyone KNEW" they'd been extinct for millions of years. Until someone managed to hang onto one a fisherman dragged outa the ocean.

I do believe that some folks are able to access some kind of database-knowledge-whatever y'wanna call it, and gain info otherwise unavailable to the rest of us. Why not dowsing? I've never seen it done in person, but...

I've hesitated to post on this forum, because of the scorn heaped on anyone who does post here. What's wrong with a little courtesy while you disagree, eh? Geez.

So, while I'm fairly open to the whole idea of dowsing, I'm really not looking forward to the name-calling, the scorn, etc. So I'm being brave enough (ha) to post it here. While it may not be quite the right place for it, it's still a little (lots!) safer here.

Is anyone familiar with the "Letter to Robin" booklet? Would that be a good place to start? Anyway, looking forward to reading more.

Nan
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Hey Nan....This is the only place you can post without getting called names or insulted...Thanks for coming by...Art
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Yeah, it kinda makes y'wonder what about it is so threatening to those self-proclaimed skeptics. Oh well.

Thank you both for the welcome, it's very nice.

My biggest challenge is in perseverence. I did get hold of that "Letter to Robin" (IS that any good?) but have yet to work on it everyday for more than just a few days at a time. Life keeps on interfering! I'm just going to have to figure out a way, that's all.

I won't - can't - say much of anything pro or con until I've got enough knowledge (and hopefully, experience) to know what the heck I'd be talkin' about. And I won't be a stinker about it, anyway. They say that "Tact" is defined as telling someone where to go, and have them thank you for it. :D I can handle that... ;D ...usually. lol

Take it easy, all
Nan
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

I will continue to reprint this until XXX and people like him stop insulting those who are dowsers, and those who truly want to learn. I don't believe dowsing works, I KNOW it works, and I have proven this in scientific tests conducted by Stanford Research Int.

Dowsing is a way of being conscious of sensory inputs which are not directly connected to the instinctive brain functions. For example man's sensitivity to magnetism. The organ we assume to be responsible for this sensitivity is the pineal gland . We know that the pineal is contained within the skull, but the pineal lies outside the brain, and has no direct contact with the brain nor does it have direct nerve connections. So the pineal must communicate with the lower brain through subconscious urges, and not rational thought. In the case of dowsing, clearly the subconscious brain (not mind) is, in some way, able to alter muscle tension in the shoulders and arms, by way of the ideomotor effect, causing the crossing of angle rods, and the swinging or rotation of the pendulum.
Yet the same channels must also be used by other subconscious stimuli for them to be felt. Anyone who has used dowsing tools may find that the same techniques work well for psychic explorations, such as dating artifacts and map dowsing. But, although the manner of bringing the raw impulse through to conscious perception may be the same, this does not mean that the origins are the same. Dowsing may be linked to the magnetic sensitivity of the pineal, but psychic sensations may emanate from quite different organs.
Becker and Marino, who state that not all information gathered by the usual senses is 'processed at the conscious level, and there is no physiological principle that would preclude the subliminal detection of EMFs [electromagnetic fields] by the nervous system.'
No one knows how dowsing works, they only know it does. There are two popular theories to explain dowsing: the first suggests that dowsing works as a result of natural phenomena. Buried metal, minerals and underground water causes either a magnetic field or a disturbance in the earth’s own magnetic field. It is thought that the dowsing rod is a tool for showing the reaction of the magnetic field in the ground to the natural magnetic field of the body.
This theory was investigated scientifically in Logan, Utah, USA, around 30 years ago. Intrigued by a dowser pinpointing the bodies of two boys who drowned in a local river, Duane G. Chadwick, professor at the Utah State University Water Research Laboratory undertook several experiments to see if there was some scientific basis for dowsing. Chadwick and his colleague, Larry Jensen started from the known observations of geologists that underground water can cause anomalies in the Earth's magnetic field. They figured that dowsers could show sensitivity to these anomalies by involuntary muscular movement in the wrists, and dowsing rods would certainly amplify any small muscular reaction by up to 300 times.

In the first of a series of experiments, on the Campus, they set about testing the idea that dowsing reactions might coincide with the spots where some changes occurred in the Earth's magnetic field. Chadwick and Jensen laid out a straight track, free of obstructions and, using a caesium vapor magnetometer, checked for variations in the earth’s magnetic field at one-foot intervals. Chadwick then buried a length of wire, in a neutral area, to distort the magnetic field. Twenty-five people were recruited to walk the test course. Few of them were dowsers; most were students or university staff. They were given a pair of L- rods made out of clothes-hanger wire, and told to hold them out roughly horizontal. If they felt any kind of reaction, they were to stop and put down a small block of wood. The results were amazing in that twenty-three of the participants had a dowsing reaction within three feet of the buried wire. Chadwick was convinced the outcome was far greater than chance.

In another experiment in North Logan City Park, Chadwick and Jensen marked out a test course with no obvious or known features. This time, the test was double blind - nothing was deliberately buried and no one knew what was out there. 150 participants with dowsing rods were asked to drop a wooden block whenever they experienced a dowsing reaction and again almost everyone did. They dropped an average of 11.3 blocks each and the location of each block was documented. Then Chadwick and Jensen went over the course with two magnetometers mounted, at different heights, on a wooden sled. The difference between the magnetometer readings showed the variation in the magnetic field along the track walked by the dowsers. The researchers then graphed the magnetometer readings against the positions of the wooden blocks, which showed again that the dowsing reactions occurred unmistakably at peaks in the magnetic field.

The Second theory is that dowsing works through the arts of the paranormal; an explanation used to account for the ability of some dowsers to find objects which are thought not to produce or influence magnetic fields. As far as field dowsing is concerned, the paranormal theory is probably in error since it has been shown that virtually everything, be it animal, vegetable or mineral, reacts to magnetic fields. However, map dowsing is something else. How does a person dowse a map to successfully locate a target hundreds or thousands of miles away? There are many unanswered questions along the same lines, which are commonly put down to psychic ability or intuition. Mankind does not know everything. Much science fact today was the science fiction and mysticism of the past and dowsing has undoubtedly survived from primitive times when the ability to find water, for instance, could have meant the difference between life and death.

To my mind there are actually two types of dowsing. Field dowsing based on magnetic effects and map dowsing or distance dowsing based on intuition or psychic ability. The two types of dowsing are quite different and both types can be learned and improved on with perseverance and practice
.
This is a small spattering of information that I have found while researching ‘consciousness’ and it’s relationship to PSI. The research and laboratory work in this field has been undertaken by colleges, universities, scientific, and government professionals all over the world for over 100 years. In every avenue of this research (of which dowsing is a part), the field work and lab work has shown consistently that PSI phenomena has performed better than random chance. (Some far better)
Some of the above was taken from Electromagnetism and life, Robert O. Becker and Andrew A. Marino, State University of New York Press, 1982

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,44557.0.html
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Hello Roswellborn,
Welcome to the Forum.
There is plenty of information on the forum for someone just starting out with dowsing along with info for the advanced dowser. The Letter to Robin book you mentioned is also good reading. At some point someone (s) way of talking about dowsing will really "hit it home" for you. Some important things are that you practice and persevere and have the desire inside, by putting forth effort to seek out knowledge about dowsing. Good things always happen to people who have enthusiasm and passion about what they want to do.
Take it as a good omen that you feel the desire to proceed with dowsing.
Jon
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Thanks Mike….Something that I had never found…Art
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Read mikes article, and it tripped something in the poor cavity that is my cranium. given the test results, and after looking at the design of most lrods, there is a distinct possiblity that what is being created is a yagi style antenna that the EM field surrounding the human body is reacting to in the wavelengths mentioned. I found the article quite interesting, i know it works i've done it. nuff said on that, but to have a potential theoretical explanation is quite heartening.
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Gentlemen for some time I have believed that what we know as dowsing is nothing more t hen electrical fields bumping up against one another,with the brainnot only having the ability to either raise or lower the minute amounts needed for survival,but also being able to detect the subtile changes in its surroundings.
Not having a formal education has been a challenge to say the least in researching this theory.But the clues
seem to be pointing in that direction.
Such as
1. dowsing seems to be very difficult after sundown
2. concertration is needed to be successful
3. solar storms seem to effect many dowers
4. dowsing seems to be easier when in good health
5. reports are being made that when the rods are within their aura,(or electrical field) dowsing is easier and more accurate
Ley lines may play a more important role then believed. consider this from a archived alternative health site.
http://web.archive.org/web/20041114020419/http://www.energizedwater.info/

(on a side note this does work on pain )
To prove my theory
I found a brainwave site that one can download frequencies and listen to
Hopefully I may be able to find a frequency t hat can be played while dowsing that will cause the rods to react(without having to concertrate.)
mike
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

"Letter to Robin" is kind of advanced for a newbie. Download it to your computer and read it. highlight or circle the parts that you don't understand. Practice dowsing for awhile and read it again. Eventually most of it will make sense even if you disagree with it. One comment on the link you provided. A physicist may be a PhD but not neccessarily. He also called himself an electronic engineer which is also not always a PhD. good luck, siegfried schlagrule
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Thank you Sgfried for the heads up on the Robins Letter.
AS I scanned it I noticed this
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Water drops moving down the wire will rake off enough electrons to flash a small neon bulb which requires over 68 volts. This is like you sliding across a plastic seat and experiencing an electric spark when you touch someone.

Moving water underground seems to cause or to be associated with electric flow. Any time electricity flows in any kind of conductor, it creates an electromagnetic field. This electromagnetic field could then be picked up by our internal sensors. And like the eye that can differentiate between forms, shades and colors, the magnetic sensors, at least according to dowsing, seem to differentiate between patterns of electromagnetic energy fields from different sources. Therefore, the subconscious can easily have information about the location of moving underground water.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could it be that as water is moving and the waves are formed, the same frequency for the object being sought for is being duplicated?
That may explain the Ghost signals many experience
I will indeed be going over this more throughly tonight
Again a thank you
Mike
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

bigm said:
Thank you Sgfried for the heads up on the Robins Letter.
AS I scanned it I noticed this
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Water drops moving down the wire will rake off enough electrons to flash a small neon bulb which requires over 68 volts. This is like you sliding across a plastic seat and experiencing an electric spark when you touch someone.

Moving water underground seems to cause or to be associated with electric flow. Any time electricity flows in any kind of conductor, it creates an electromagnetic field. This electromagnetic field could then be picked up by our internal sensors. And like the eye that can differentiate between forms, shades and colors, the magnetic sensors, at least according to dowsing, seem to differentiate between patterns of electromagnetic energy fields from different sources. Therefore, the subconscious can easily have information about the location of moving underground water.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could it be that as water is moving and the waves are formed, the same frequency for the object being sought for is being duplicated?
That may explain the Ghost signals many experience
I will indeed be going over this more throughly tonight
Again a thank you
Mike

Mike, As you go through and come across questions there are two sites that deal with them and ponder them repeatedly. Do a google search for "digital dowsers". There are two varieties "isd" and "photon". The isd is more free wheeling and ventures afield on all sorts of topics. The photon is more straight-laced and is an official arm of the american society of dowsers. You don't need to be a member of ASD to join either one and there is no cost to join either one. Occasionally some blue-nosed-nitwit on photon will demand that only ASD members be allowed to post. They are usually denounced and educated by the other dowsers and told that you can't learn anything by suppressing discussion. They are also given the opportunity to pay the frieght at the website and decline. Among the largest cash donors are the non-ASD members. You will find very few treasure and mineral dowsers there - maybe five posts a year on those topics - but lots of water and health dowsers. good luck, siegfried schlagrule
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Thank You very much Sigfried, Iam forever indebted to you.

mike
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Keep the information coming…I am enjoying all the theories…Art
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

bigm said:
Thank You very much Sigfried, Iam forever indebted to you.

mike

Once you join those digital dowser sites most of the past posts are archived. You have a lot of reading to do my friend. Good luck on your journey. ss
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Question for aart??
I'm BP, so my brain fires differently. I guess I think and reason differently too. My question is....... if you are "more sensitive" to things, will this help or hinder in dowsing???

Your opinion please!

I'm frustrated with my detector, gonna check out dowsing.
I find things by the "pull". Do you know what I mean??

When beach combing, things call me, thats how I find things. Like my Glass Rolling Pin. It called me to it.
Thanks, ;D
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

I think that is why a lot of people have trouble Dowsing. It works a little different for each of us. My method was developed over a lot of years looking for Placer Gold. I don’t let my mind think about what I am doing. I think about movies or what I did last night. If I think about Placer Gold my method will not work for me. This hobby is an individual experience. There is so much to learn and you are the only one that can tell what works for you. Read every thing that you can find even posts by the Skeptics. Try what others say works for them. You never know when one word in a post will help you. Develop your own set of rules to follow. I don’t practice a lot any more except when I want to try something new. Always remember that the rods are a tool…Art
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

aarthrj3811 wrote
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Mike….Something that I had never found…Art
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Aarthrj It is I who should think you The information you have provided for others is awesome,
If I had the knowledge you have shared with us back in the eighties: while hunting oil up in kentucky : I would be very well off now
Again I say thank you
mike
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

Thanks Mike…..The history for this forum is not good. It has been deleted entirely 3 times since I have been here. Each time all the information is lost. I want to pass on everything I know before my time is up. I want others to enjoy dowsing as I have. I to wish I would have known about it in the 80’s. I only dig the easy stuff now but the hunt is the most fun for me now….Art
 

Re: Skeptics, courtesy, & thread title(s)

aarthrj3811

I was reading another thread late last night involving you and Dell against some who doubted the validty

of dowsing and a little light bulb came. I will be going back over it this weekend to be sure, but the subject came up that in a challenge you were involved in and maybe dell too, the skeptics seemed to be able to disrupt the signals so that the rods were unable to pick them up
Over the years I have noticed this same happening to others as well
All were experienced dowsers
Have you given more thought to why this happens?

mike
 

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