Small Claims Court - Top Filers

[Rail Dawg]

Got a situation where someone filed a lode claim on top of one of our placer claims in Rye Patch, NV.

We don’t know the individual and didn’t give permission for the lode claim to be filed.

Usually a phone call to the person that top-filed resolves the issue.

However in this case the top-filer (who only filed with the BLM and not Pershing County) doesn’t seem to care that they have filed illegally.

Anyone dealt with this type of issue in a Small Claims Court?

We haven’t lost any money (yet) and from what we understand in Nevada a Justice Court Judge can only award money but can’t compel a defendant to do something. i.e. file a Claim Abandonment with the BLM.

We don’t want this person digging on our claim so what do you all suggest we do?

If it’s a Small Claims matter any suggestions on how to proceed?

We’re easy-going but it seems in some cases being nice won’t prevent a top-filer from going after our minerals.

Thanks for any ideas.

 

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[Hoser John]

When a chain and lock is used i just cut chain and add a lock. Lousy deal now as legal issues as this are ungodly to unravel. Try to talk it out as all other means takes much time and money-bummer-John

 

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[Rail Dawg]

You really can't expect the BLM to help in this matter Bonaro. I've given you the mining law that prohibits claimants from involving the government in their claim disputes.

Here is the entire text of the 1865 Mining Act again.


If that's difficult to understand or you, like others, believe old laws don't apply here is a much more recent decision where the BLM got their rears chewed for even suggesting that a disputed claim might be properly located.

Robert O'Day 2013

The BLM can not close a claim case file or "invalidate" a mining claim because of a dispute between claimants. The BLM does not work for claimants. They are a surface management agency - they do not manage your mineral rights.

Once an adverse claim (overclaim) has been made the Sheriff can not interfere. It's entirely up to the claimants, or ultimately the courts, to settle their dispute. It's a civil matter. That's what the law says and that's what the Sheriff will tell you if you ask him to intervene. Please don't bother the Sheriff with civil disputes, you may actually need his help on your claim some day and false alarms could make the Sheriff reluctant to deal with you and other claimants needing help.

Once Rail Dawg has a court order he can take that to the BLM and they will close the adverse claims case file because the court has adjudicated the civil matter in his favor. If the overclaimer persists after the judgement the Sheriff can help too.

Heavy Pans

Clay Diggins (Barry) the biggest compliment I can give you is that I strive to one day be as wise and knowledgeable about mining land and law as you.

I can’t give a higher compliment. We are lucky to have you here guiding us.

Chuck

 

[Oddjob]

So I have a question Clay and Rail Dawg.

Can you hunt on BLM land?

 

[Clay Diggins]

The State controls hunting Oddjob. The Public lands are open to hunting except where there has been a closure that prohibits hunting. Those type of closures are rare but wildlife ACECs and wildlife refuges can prohibit or limit hunting. The State is the ultimate entity that controls hunting in almost all situations on Federal managed lands including BLM and Forest Service.

For example, in the Gila wilderness some areas have both bow and black powder hunting seasons for trophy bull elk but you can't take an elk cow by any method. Other areas nearby are wide open to whatever the regular hunting season permits. Both of those hunting regimes are controlled by the State.

The Feds control the take, method and seasons on some kinds of migratory waterfowl but ungulates and non endangered wildlife are whatever the State permits.

As an example of State powers over hunting when the Mexican wolf was "reintroduced" to the Gila wilderness all the transplanted wolves were killed when they decided to eat our livestock. The feds were real upset that the wolves didn't go vegan or stick to trying to eat wildlife and there were lots of threats to us from the Feds but State law gives owners the right to kill any animal that is preying on their livestock. In the end the Feds went away and so did the wolves. No permits were needed and no fines were possible.


Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

When a chain and lock is used i just cut chain and add a lock.

If you have a legal right to ingress/egress this is the quickest and least dramatic solution. Quick, cheap and effective!

Heavy Pans

 

[chlsbrns]

Nevada Bureau of Mines Procedures Book

http://nv-churchillcounty.civicplus.com/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1180

 

[chlsbrns]

I did not read it all. You should read it all before coming to any conclusions!

H-3870-1, Adverse Claims, Protests, Contests, and Appeals

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/uploads/Media_Library_BLM_Policy_h3870-1.pdf

 

[Bonaro]

You really can't expect the BLM to help in this matter Bonaro. I've given you the mining law that prohibits claimants from involving the government in their claim disputes.

Here is the entire text of the 1865 Mining Act again.


If that's difficult to understand or you, like others, believe old laws don't apply here is a much more recent decision where the BLM got their rears chewed for even suggesting that a disputed claim might be properly located.

Robert O'Day 2013

The BLM can not close a claim case file or "invalidate" a mining claim because of a dispute between claimants. The BLM does not work for claimants. They are a surface management agency - they do not manage your mineral rights.

Once an adverse claim (overclaim) has been made the Sheriff can not interfere. It's entirely up to the claimants, or ultimately the courts, to settle their dispute. It's a civil matter. That's what the law says and that's what the Sheriff will tell you if you ask him to intervene. Please don't bother the Sheriff with civil disputes, you may actually need his help on your claim some day and false alarms could make the Sheriff reluctant to deal with you and other claimants needing help.

Once Rail Dawg has a court order he can take that to the BLM and they will close the adverse claims case file because the court has adjudicated the civil matter in his favor. Even the BLM has to obey a court order. If the overclaimer persists after the judgement the Sheriff can help too.

Heavy Pans

Maybe I misspoke...I wouldn't expect the BLM to intervene in a civil dispute between miners. My suggestion was to point out to the BLM that the over filed claim was filed improperly and that they might want to void it on that basis. I actually dont see the problem with this over file unless the guy tries to mine or sell it. Its still worthless paper but if a new buyer invests a lot of $ he may try to fight it. If he tries to work the invalid claim then he can be regarded as a claim jumper.
Again, informing him of his invalid claim and coming to a peaceful solution is always best
Court is always the last resort

 

[ecmjamsit]

Some mineral trespass guidance. While this document deals mainly with mining without permission from the government, it may provide insight into how to stop losses from invalid claims. Click below to see BLM policy...

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/uploads/Media Center_BLM Policy_H-9235-1.pdf

 

[Rail Dawg]

The top-filer responded to the letter we sent very positively and is backing off their claim.

The upshot to this is we've learned even more important things in this thread plus we now have retained one of the sharpest local mining attorney's in the Rye Patch area.

Although we won't need this time (it appears) the services of this attorney it sure is nice knowing we have a good one in our back pocket should the need arise.

Many thanks to those who take the time to share their wisdom.

 

[Bonaro]

The top-filer responded to the letter we sent very positively and is backing off their claim.

The upshot to this is we've learned even more important things in this thread plus we now have retained one of the sharpest local mining attorney's in the Rye Patch area.

Although we won't need this time (it appears) the services of this attorney it sure is nice knowing we have a good one in our back pocket should the need arise.

Many thanks to those who take the time to share their wisdom.

In my experience when you get an attorney, the only one who really wins is the attorney. Your experience may vary.

 

[Rail Dawg]

In my experience when you get an attorney, the only one who really wins is the attorney. Your experience may vary.

Usually true lol.

But a necessity at times.