SO PRETTY MUCH ITS ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

[SONICMASD]

SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

if you actually take the time to look up the laws (which can change city to city, county to county, forest to forest, etc. which makes it even more annoying) it is pretty much illegal to do anything in this country!

The ARPA of 1979 prohibits you from taking anything that is more than 50years old that you find so that is just about everything worthwile to a relic or coin hunter.

Then most states and national forests have laws like this one of Tonto National Forest in Arizona:

"Exploring for lost treasures like the elusive, if not imaginary, Lost Dutchman mine in the Superstition
Mountains, is not prohibited as long as the exploration does not alter natural features of the
environment. Digging or otherwise disturbing the environment is prohibited in all designed wilderness
(see Wilderness section) areas. In general, areas that have been withdrawn from material entry also
prohibit treasure troving. Such areas include: National parks, national monuments, Indian
reservations, military reservations, wildlife areas, areas designated or under study as a Wild and
Scenic River and corridors along rivers and lakes that have been withdrawn for water reclamation
purposes.
Searching for treasures under the guise of prospecting or minerals exploration using mining authority
is prohibited.
Contact the district ranger who is responsible for the area of suspected lost treasure before
conducting any troving activity.
Any treasure found does not automatically become the property of the finder. Law requires that items
of value that are located must be placed in a federal repository for a period of time to allow the owner
to reclaim them. At the end of the required time period, an administrative law judge will determine the
disposition of the treasure."

So basically you can search for treasure but if its buried at all you cant dig for it and even if you did find treasure you have to turn it over to the feds.

I really wanted to go to old ghost towns that are now nothing more than a couple crumbled buildings and detect but im sure those sites would be considered to have historic value so those are off limits completely.

It's all a bunch of crap and it forces everyone to cicumvent the law by:
1. metal detecting and saying you're looking for things less than 50years old and then not reporting older finds.
2. digging for caches when no ones looking and having to sell your finds illegally.

anyone have any more info on this topic? am i missing something or are all the finds that are posted on this site of old coins, etc, really illegal? (UNLESS OF COURSE THEY WERE ON PRIVATE LAND)

 

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[Jeffro]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

ANYTHING is illegal if someone wants it to be.

I'm sure your local municipality has laws on spitting on the sidewalk too.

Depends on how you act and how bad a day the "enforcing officer" is having.

"Sorry, I don't desecrate shrines or anything, I'm just looking for loose change in the park."

In most cases, I'm all for the law. But there are too damn many on the books these days. If you take a second look at the first line of this response, it's getting more true every day. Anyone with a gripe can get a law on the books these days bacause it conflicts with their point of view. ARPA is a good example. Archaeologists. Hey, where's the single digit smiley?

 

[ivan salis]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

normally I'm a law and order type myself -- but under the 50 year rule this is the last year you could "legally" find a wheat cent (penny) --SHOCKING BUT LEGALLY TRUE - since they were last made in 1958 plus--- PLUS only silver coins dated 1958 to 1964 would be legal to FIND ****1957 and earlier coins would be illegal and the $50 buck rule stinks too that means any decent modern jewelry find would have to be turned in to "big brother" ---so in a 7 years all I 'll be able to dig is CLAD COINS and junk items worth less that $50 bucks ---- oh please ---- I'm sorry but enough is enough---- its stupid laws like this turn normal decent folks into outlaws and make folks hate and resent the laws and idiot lawmakers that make them. Ivan

NOTE -- mining and prospecting is allowed* legally "-- so your not "treasure hunting" -- your prospecting * -- know thy "loop holes"--- now I dare anyone to prove the differance between digging for mining and prospecting --and treasure hunting -- since the differance is intent -- so who can "prove" what your thinking or your what your true intentions are when you dig -- digging is digging -- now if you accidently find something "of large value" -- and go by the rules you might be tied into knots for years and wind up feeding lawyers most of what is found in legal bills try to claim what rightfully should be yours all along since you did all the work -- if you find a cache --use the old time miners code -- #1 keep your trap shut -- #2 file a mining claim ----- #3 break the gold down into small nugget size chunks and bring it in legally a bit at a time slowly as if it was found nuggets --- (pay the taxes on your "finds" and such -- that way the money is legally spendible and the income reported so they can not come at you that way ) -- be sure to hide your stash well--- since lots of folks will be looking to follow you and rip you off including the GRUBBERMINT -- watch your mouth and trust nobody even kinfolk. Ivan

 

[SONICMASD]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

"PROSPECTING: Prospecting is the gathering of information on minerals resources. Prospecting
is allowed within a designed Wilderness Area, but an approved Plan of Operations is required."

nope the feds got prospecting covered. pretty much if you're caught digging a large enough hole in the ground theres no loophole.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

apply -- use the "paper work"-- get the permit

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

HI: Sorry Ivan, even prospecting is quickly coming to a close. Just look at the many, mnay bills now being sponsered for just this purpose by well intentioned, but effectivly ignorant people and groups.

Sigh

No wonder most of the world laughs when Americans say they are fighting for freedom for the world. when we don't really have it at home any more. Most have more indivuiual freedom, except for a few narrow, but important ones. We are even rapidly losing our right to self defense, this will control crime ? sniff

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

Good Morning my Friend SWR: Frankly I believe the problem is simply improper instilling of responsibility and moral obligations in growing up by society, courtesy of the infamous Dr Spock.

Mexico, for some reason, seems to follow t he US in many things. They are now into this same thing also, so I have had the opportunity to see it being applied twice, and failing both times.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Jeffro]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

ANYTHING is illegal if someone wants it to be.

I'm sure your local municipality has laws on spitting on the sidewalk too.

Depends on how you act and how bad a day the "enforcing officer" is having.

"Sorry, I don't desecrate shrines or anything, I'm just looking for loose change in the park."

In most cases, I'm all for the law. But there are too damn many on the books these days. If you take a second look at the first line of this response, it's getting more true every day. Anyone with a gripe can get a law on the books these days bacause it conflicts with their point of view. ARPA is a good example. Archaeologists. Hey, where's the single digit smiley?

Hey..ya gotta admit that most of those laws are on the books because groups of like minded people (not isolated incidents) have gone beyond the realm of "normal" by their lust for the gold. Backhoe's in the parks and widespread vandalism of historical grounds are almost a thing of the past

Yes, I forgot that.... Why just the other day I took my son to the park and remember thanking the city for their dauntless efforts to keep your average Joe Blow out. No more falling in pits from careless backhoe operators for me!

 

[Iunno]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

Screw the law. I'm a minor. I'll feign ignorance.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

CINDER, Need I say more ? heheheheh

Don Jose de La mancha

 

[corklabus]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

It's okay.......really it is........
Just retire from the hobby and send all your metal detectors to me and I'll worry about all these stupid laws for y'all and maybe give ya a report once in a while.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

Being a minor doesn't mean what it used to before, either.

If you are 16 years old, you are not allowed to sign contracts, smoke, drink, or have legal sex .

However, commit a crime and see how fast you can become an "adult".

Besides the fact that I love prospecting, mining and metal detectoring (and I don't care what laws they make, I will continue to do so),
the very biggest loss we have in all these restrictive laws (and getting more restrictive), is that it is these very people (us) who make the discoveries of history lost.

If not for treasure hunters, many, many historical items would just rot into oblivion. The archeologists, do not know where all the stuff is, nor will they ever, especially if treasure hunting is relegated to a crime.

There are very few treasure hunters (using TNet as an example), who are NOT historians - we all seem to love the history of places, civilizations (of many different eras), we study topography, geography, history and many other things by choice because of the love of the hobby.

But, we can take comfort that there are people who have more money than God, who are still allowed to do anything they want on our public (and private) lands - mostly because "they know the right way to do things". :P

B

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

TT,

In your state, it gets even more complicated than some others. You are better in the northern area, but southern Cal is a bear. The state, counties, parks, blm - none of them seem to ever quite understand their own boundaries. (never mind their own laws). I don't know about all counties, of course - but, boy, has it been a roller coaster ride in Kern County for many, many years. Plumas County has been much better.

I have been "escorted" - thank you very much, sir, from the State Park (we were on our own BLM claim), and we really should know better about the "boundaries" of the Park - which starts there to the west (excuse me again sir, but it is 9 am and you are facing the sun, I believe you are facing east) - Oh, those big boundary signs - sorry sir, I put them up as corner markers 20 years ago, yes sir, that is my name and my claim number, and here is my current PO right here in my pocket. Ok sir, you go back to your office and check your map, but I have one right here, if you'd like to see - yes, I have a GPS and a topo map. EEEEERRRRRGGGGG. (I didn't actually have to leave, but that was the start of the conversation). The park service DID come and remove our equipment from our BLM claim, and we have never gotten them back. (after we left). I do have a nice piece of paper telling me my belongings had been "eliminated" from the park, though.

Unfortunately, for the guy next down the road, either he lost his temper or something, because they arrested him and it has been in court for years now. Actually, they arrested him, and he came back the next day, and they arrested him again, and then a third day in a row. (and arrested again). He called us a couple of weeks later at home, and last time I talked to him, the Park had kept postponing hearing after hearing.

Oh, blood pressure is going up - better quit while I'm still on the scale!!!

B

 

[PhipsFolly]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

Can anyone say "Boston Tea Party"?!!!!!!!!!!

 

[patpall22]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

Just beware the bear in the air and the trail cameras on the tree trunks. They will probably be using electronic surveillance on us treasure hunters long before they use it on the borders.

I agree Treasure tales. I believe that park service uses cheap hunting motion senor cams.

It's like artifact collecting - is it or is it not illegal to pick up surface pieces? It seems the regs say surface hunting is OK. But if you ask an office person at the nearest BLM office the answer will depend on how they are feeling that day - at least that's the only explanation I can come up with.

This one is a bit tricky I think. from what I understood from an upper divishion archeology class I took last fall, any artifact that is discovered in a national or state regulated area has to be reported to the park services. The answer given to me when I asked my professor what to do if I found any artifact in a dry river bed or any other exposed place was to LEAVE IT IN ITS ORIGINAL CONTEXT AND GET A RANGER. when I asked what if I thought it might be found by another hiker the Proff told me that if it is really obvious, put it in a gofer hole or conceal it where you can locate it later and get a ranger. My professor was a good archaeologist but very by the books so to speak.

 

[stefen]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

Screw the law. I'm a minor. I'll feign ignorance.

ignorance of the law is no excuse...nor hiding under a skirt as a juvie...so says any judge...

 

[ivan salis]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

yep their turning normal folks into outlaws via stupid rules and laws -- in places with the 50 year rule (legally this is the last year you can a wheat cent -- last made in 1958 or 50 years ago --- yep that my freind is the sad "legal" truth under the letter of the "law"--sicking isn't it -- and "legally" under the "law" only silver / gold coins after 1957 could be kept -- by 2015 all the 1964 and before silver and gold coins will be "artifacts" only clad will be legal to find (oh boy clad coins-- barf)-- and many places also have the $50 dollar rule, so now even if you find a bit of "modern" nice bling that is untracible back to its legal "owner" the GRABBERMINTwant you to cough it up to them -- so nothing over 50 years old or worth more than $50 ( lets see under the 50 year old / $50 buck rules ---relics are out --old coins are out -- anything over $50 --that means a good jewelry find is out and a cache is without a doubt out --- lets see whats left -- modern crap clad and junk jewelry plus all the junk and pull tabs you can carry --- I'm sorry but enough is enough !! these laws are draconian --- bad laws are a lot rotten fish they stink and need to be gotten rid of as soon as possible) --- things are getting to be more and more a "rigged" game -- the poor can not have a chance to hit it rich by luck -- its nose to the grindstone , work till you drop you peons -- Ivan

as far as being "stupid of the law" or "I didn't know" goes its is not a legally valid defense -- the old legal saw "ignorance of the law is no excuse" has been used by judges for many years --- pleading I'm too young and dumb to know what I was doing was wrong will not save you either -- the meas raea test -- ie are you mentally "smart" enough to "know" what your doing is wrong would apply -- if the answer is yes your screwed --if not you'll get locked up in a nut ward or a juville hall type place since you can't "think" clearly for yourself until your bran ages enough for you to get "smart" ---so most likely thats a lose / lose in my book --no win there ---- Ivan

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

Me, too!

B

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

Is that a rhetorical question, or do you not know what he means?

B

 

[ivan salis]

Re: SO PRETTY MUCH IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO ANYTHING

no GRABBERMINT or GRUBBERMENT are terms that I use in regards to a greedy money grabbing , money grubbing type goverment --- they are words I use that I made it up all on my very own --( MUCH like RACHEL RAYS USE OF * EVOO -- HER TERM MADE IT TO THE BOOK AND IS NOW CONCISDERED A WORD by the way -- language is a constantly change thing ) it stands for greedy grabby goverment --- it exist in my veiw often on the state level and the federal level and sometimes even on the local level --it is those that put unfair laws on the books to fiscal exploit metal detectorist and steal our finds and suck all the joy and profiet from our hobby -- now please just go away SWR -- I not playing your "game" go pick a fight eslewhere ( since dragging down folks and attack dogging folks is your style we have little if anything to speak to each other about really ) -- have a nice day . Ivan