U.S. cannabis shoppers face a market flush with illegal weed

dognose

Silver Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
4,112
Reaction score
11,289
Golden Thread
0
Location
Indiana
Detector(s) used
Fisher F70
February 5, 20257:14 AM ET
by Brian Mann


In much of the U.S., illegal cannabis outcompetes legal weed sold in licensed shops. Officers with the law enforcement division of the California Department of Cannabis Control confiscate unlicensed marijuana plants in the Goldridge neighborhood of Fairfield, Calif., on Jan. 9.

In much of the U.S., illegal cannabis outcompetes legal weed sold in licensed shops. Officers with the law enforcement division of the California Department of Cannabis Control confiscate unlicensed marijuana plants in the Goldridge neighborhood of Fairfield, Calif., on Jan. 9.


FAIRFIELD, Calif. On a crisp winter morning last month, Sgt. Erin McAtee watched as members of his team with the California Department of Cannabis Control executed a search warrant at a home in Fairfield, halfway between Sacramento and San Francisco.

They broke open the door of what looked on the outside like any other upscale suburban house on this street. Inside, the home had been gutted, transformed into a smelly mess of marijuana plants, grow lights, chemicals and pesticides.

"You can see the mold down on the tarp down there," McAtee said. "Yup, that's mold." His team also identified chemicals and pesticides not approved in the U.S. for use with consumer products like legal cannabis.

Sergeant Erin Mcatee led the raids of three private residences for unlicensed marijuana production in the Goldridge neighborhood of Fairfield, California on Thursday, January 9, 2025. Officers recovered 2,001 pounds of cannabis plants and 167.56 pounds of cannabis shake.

Sgt. Erin McAtee led the raids of three private residences for unlicensed marijuana production in the Goldridge neighborhood of Fairfield, Calif. Officers recovered 2,001 pounds of cannabis plants and 167.56 pounds of cannabis shake.

A dozen years after states first started legalizing recreational marijuana, this is the complicated world of American cannabis.

A dozen years after states first started legalizing recreational marijuana, this is the complicated world of American cannabis.

On the one hand, weed is now as normal to many consumers as a glass of wine or a bottle of beer. A growing number of companies offer government tested, well-regulated products. But a huge amount of the cannabis being sold in the U.S. still comes from bootleg operations. California officials acknowledge illegal sales still far outpace transactions through licensed shops and vendors.

According to McAtee, it's often difficult even for experienced agents to tell weed sourced through regulated channels from the criminal stuff.

"Our undercovers will buy cannabis from people who are outwardly pretending to be legit," he told NPR. "They'll tell you they have a license and that everything they're doing is legit."

If it's hard for experienced cops to distinguish regulated weed from black market products, it can be nearly impossible for average consumers. Advocates of marijuana legalization say it's disturbing that unregulated weed plays such a big role.

"We're talking about a market that lacks transparency and accountability," said Paul Armentano, head of NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. He said any time a consumer product is being sold without proper regulation, it's risky.

"Whether I was getting cannabis or alcohol or my broccoli from an entirely unregulated market, I'd be concerned about any number of issues," Armentano said.

An officer with the Law Enforcement Division of California's Department of Cannabis Control confiscates unlicensed marijuana plants.

An officer with the California Department of Cannabis Control confiscates bunches of unlicensed marijuana plants.

Black market weed thrives, raising questions for consumers​

Advocates of cannabis decriminalization hoped legal weed companies would quickly move past this problem, eclipsing criminal growers and processors.

So far, the opposite has happened. Vanda Felbab-Brown, who studies criminal drug markets for the Brookings Institution, said regulated cannabis producers often compete with a growing network of criminal gangs often rooted in mainland China.

"They're spreading from the West Coast all the way up to Maine," she said.

According to Felbab-Brown, Chinese criminal organizations are drawn to the marijuana business because it's a relatively low risk to gain a foothold in communities. There's relatively little law enforcement pressure, unlike with harder drugs such as fentanyl and methamphetamines.

"These illegal cannabis cultivation plantations are used by the Chinese criminal groups for laundering money, but there is also increasingly an intertwining with human smuggling of Chinese people into the U.S. that go through some of those networks. They wind up in fact being enslaved at the plantations," she said.

NPR emailed Chinese officials to ask about the role of China-based organized crime in the U.S. cannabis industry but haven't heard back. In the past, Beijing has suggested the U.S. is pointing fingers at China to divert attention from America's drug and crime problems.

The Law Enforcement Division of California's Department of Cannabis Control waits outside of one of the three private residences raided for unlicensed marijuana production.

The Law Enforcement Division of California's Department of Cannabis Control waits outside of one of the three private residences raided for unlicensed marijuana production.

Experts say criminal cannabis sellers wind up outcompeting licensed vendors. They don't pay taxes or costly fees, which means their prices are often lower. They can also sell their product anywhere in the country, ignoring federal laws that prevent legal companies from shipping cannabis across state lines.

Black market weed then often winds up on store shelves, packaged in ways that can make it indistinguishable from legal regulated cannabis.

"There's going to be mold and these banned pesticide and herbicides that are getting into the illegal product so that's a grave concern," said Bill Jones, head of enforcement for California's Department of Cannabis Control. "I'm not sure all consumers are aware of that."

What should consumers do?​

With cannabis markets still difficult to navigate, experts interviewed by NPR said the most reliable way to find regulated cannabis is in licensed shops in states and communities where they're allowed to operate. This often means paying a higher price, but the tradeoff in quality can be significant.

A customer browses products for sale at the Green Goddess Collective legal cannabis dispensary in the Venice neighborhood of Los Angeles, California. State officials and many cannabis experts hope licensed shops will eventually displace the booming black market industry.

A customer browses products for sale at the Green Goddess Collective legal cannabis dispensary in the Venice neighborhood of Los Angeles, California. State officials and many cannabis experts hope licensed shops will eventually displace the booming black market industry.

Many states where recreational cannabis is legal, including California and New Jersey and New York now have online advice to help people locate and buy legal marijuana. Double-check your brick-and-mortar shop to make sure it's licensed and reputable.

Even when working through a reliable seller, cannabis experts said it's a good idea to ask questions about sourcing and potency.

Everyone interviewed by NPR for this project said they expect it to get easier over time for people who choose to buy and use legal marijuana. Most pointed to the fact that America has gone through this kind of transition before with another popular consumer product: alcohol.

Alcohol prohibition was repealed in December 1933, but many states kept liquor bans on the books into the 1950s, creating the same kind of patchwork we now see with marijuana laws. Liquor bootleggers and smugglers continued to operate for years.

"When you move from prohibition to legalization, it takes time," said Beau Kilmer an expert on marijuana markets and co-director of the Rand Drug Policy Research Center.

A restricted entry sign is posted to a location in the Goldridge neighborhood.

A restricted entry sign is posted to a location in the Goldridge neighborhood.

According to Kilmer, many states have mismanaged this transition, focusing too much on regulating legal weed companies without helping them compete with criminal organizations.

"After [states] pass legalization, they'll spend a couple of years coming up with the licensing regime and figuring out what the regulations are going to be and issuing licenses, but there hasn't been a lot of focus on what to do about the illegal market. And in a lot of places, enforcement just hasn't been a priority."

This is changing in some places. In part to help legal operators compete, New York City has been cracking down on unlicensed marijuana retail stores. California officials say they seized nearly $200 million worth of illegally grown cannabis last year.

Despite these efforts, black market weed is expected to remain "pervasive" for years to come, according to state officials and drug policy experts.

In Fairfield, Sgt. McAtee watched as a truck backed up to another illegal grow house, preparing to haul away a big crop of seized cannabis. He said this crop might have wound up on shelves anywhere in the U.S.

"A lot of the places we hit, they're shipping their cannabis out of state, where they can make ten-fold [the profit] you'd make in California," he said.

SOURCE: https://www.npr.org/2025/02/05/g-s1-46564/cannabis-market-illegal-weed-consumers
 

People are gonna cheat at pretty much anything these days, especially if it makes them money.

Considering how low the price of weed is in the legal stores, I can't imagine how these growers are making much in the way of profit.
weed2.gif
 

People are gonna cheat at pretty much anything these days, especially if it makes them money.

Considering how low the price of weed is in the legal stores, I can't imagine how these growers are making much in the way of profit. View attachment 2192165
Hi. In these states can't people grow their own? Id imagine that the best format to make it worthless for crims would be people can buy from shops and people can grow their own.
 

People are gonna cheat at pretty much anything these days, especially if it makes them money.

Considering how low the price of weed is in the legal stores, I can't imagine how these growers are making much in the way of profit. View attachment 2192165
Not necessarily. For example, medicinal MJ in Pennsylvania, on average, costs about $50 for 1/8 oz with higher prices for top shelf quality (if they ever legalize recreational, I can't see the prices going changing).

These are what we used to call (back in the day) rip-off prices. There is room for the illegal grow and sale. I'd go on but .... 5th.
 

my personal observation ever since they legalized the sale of "medical" marijuana in Oklahoma is that the whole thing has been a mistake.

Almost immediately, the Chinese started buying up lots of land around the state, offering people far more than market value for their land. An "offer they can't refuse" more or less. They bought up several pieces of land around the county where I live. Their grow operations have resulted in several arrests being made of Chinese nationals growing without a valid license. I personally believe their government placed them here to take advantage of our laws in order to funnel huge amounts of money back to the Chinese government. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Personally, I believe it's a national security threat.

From what I can see and people I've talked to, the "medical card" licensing procedure is a joke. Apparently it's not much more than telling a "doctor" that you have such and such ailment, hand him some money, and you get a card. It is amazing to me how many people I see in their early 20's who have these "ailments". They seem to have little desire to work, and seem to spend most of their actual cash on "medical" marijuana and tattoos while the taxpayers provide them with groceries and housing assistance.

The state of Oklahoma has raked in hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue from this venture, yet I've seen nothing improve and the only real result I have seen is the continued decay of society.
 

Hi. In these states can't people grow their own? Id imagine that the best format to make it worthless for crims would be people can buy from shops and people can grow their own.
Growing something of quality to finish is much harder than you think. Also it's all about that tax money
 

Here in Gunnison it's been legal for years now.
Weve had 14 weed shops at one time in a town of 5000 people and they are making money hand over fist.
Now we have a 50 million dollar budget for this tiny town and they cant pay the bills haha.
Maybe the city council member need to put the bong down for a minute.
 

They seem to have little desire to work, and seem to spend most of their actual cash on "medical" marijuana and tattoos while the taxpayers provide them with groceries and housing assistance.

No need to put down people who have tattoos! Lol!

DSC08896.webp
 

Yep, they're just the modern day moonshiners.
Hardly. Most illegal grows are by cartel members or other criminals. They're not hippies at one with nature, they're dirtbags destroying the environment with toxic chemicals that never go away.


I just want to know how any of them were turning a profit indoor with bay area energy prices.
 

Hardly. Most illegal grows are by cartel members or other criminals. They're not hippies at one with nature, they're dirtbags destroying the environment with toxic chemicals that never go away.


I just want to know how any of them were turning a profit indoor with bay area energy prices.
I don't think the word "most" applies.....
I think it may be a 50/50 split...
California is rampant with its citizens in northern areas growing not just for sales to shops (which is getting harder and cheaper due to the massive supplies).
Grows are run to the proper levels of quality on these... they can just net more from their side hustles than they could ever bring in from stores.
And thats just northern Cali.... forget all the other hipsters who are funding their lifestyles by grows.
As long as it remains illegal to grow and banned in some states / regulated... etc.... there will be that demand that will be met by those willing to take the risk for that money.
 

I don't think the word "most" applies.....
I think it may be a 50/50 split...
California is rampant with its citizens in northern areas growing not just for sales to shops (which is getting harder and cheaper due to the massive supplies).
Grows are run to the proper levels of quality on these... they can just net more from their side hustles than they could ever bring in from stores.
And thats just northern Cali.... forget all the other hipsters who are funding their lifestyles by grows.
As long as it remains illegal to grow and banned in some states / regulated... etc.... there will be that demand that will be met by those willing to take the risk for that money.

Could be 50/50. NorCal is where I was involved with raids...and I don't recall any being what you describe. Most of the time it was at least one armed violent person. So in my experience, most applies. I'm not saying they don't exist.... just that the cartels had surpassed the dirt hippies. The trimmigrants declined in numbers rapidly, most finding it not worth it anymore. That lifestyle seemed dwindling before I left.

Then again, maybe those types weren't targeted as much (I would hope). But usually that's not how it works. I could be wrong.
 

1971 non taxed prices

$15. an OZ
$160 a Pound ?
Averaging $300 a Kilo
Yes I remember "Mexican" was selling for that price, ($10 bucks for a 4 finger bag) practically all leaf and seeds and very poor quality, but it's all that was available.
 

Last edited:
February 5, 20257:14 AM ET
by Brian Mann


In much of the U.S., illegal cannabis outcompetes legal weed sold in licensed shops. Officers with the law enforcement division of the California Department of Cannabis Control confiscate unlicensed marijuana plants in the Goldridge neighborhood of Fairfield, Calif., on Jan. 9.

In much of the U.S., illegal cannabis outcompetes legal weed sold in licensed shops. Officers with the law enforcement division of the California Department of Cannabis Control confiscate unlicensed marijuana plants in the Goldridge neighborhood of Fairfield, Calif., on Jan. 9.


FAIRFIELD, Calif. On a crisp winter morning last month, Sgt. Erin McAtee watched as members of his team with the California Department of Cannabis Control executed a search warrant at a home in Fairfield, halfway between Sacramento and San Francisco.

They broke open the door of what looked on the outside like any other upscale suburban house on this street. Inside, the home had been gutted, transformed into a smelly mess of marijuana plants, grow lights, chemicals and pesticides.

"You can see the mold down on the tarp down there," McAtee said. "Yup, that's mold." His team also identified chemicals and pesticides not approved in the U.S. for use with consumer products like legal cannabis.

Sergeant Erin Mcatee led the raids of three private residences for unlicensed marijuana production in the Goldridge neighborhood of Fairfield, California on Thursday, January 9, 2025. Officers recovered 2,001 pounds of cannabis plants and 167.56 pounds of cannabis shake.

Sgt. Erin McAtee led the raids of three private residences for unlicensed marijuana production in the Goldridge neighborhood of Fairfield, Calif. Officers recovered 2,001 pounds of cannabis plants and 167.56 pounds of cannabis shake.

A dozen years after states first started legalizing recreational marijuana, this is the complicated world of American cannabis.

A dozen years after states first started legalizing recreational marijuana, this is the complicated world of American cannabis.

On the one hand, weed is now as normal to many consumers as a glass of wine or a bottle of beer. A growing number of companies offer government tested, well-regulated products. But a huge amount of the cannabis being sold in the U.S. still comes from bootleg operations. California officials acknowledge illegal sales still far outpace transactions through licensed shops and vendors.

According to McAtee, it's often difficult even for experienced agents to tell weed sourced through regulated channels from the criminal stuff.

"Our undercovers will buy cannabis from people who are outwardly pretending to be legit," he told NPR. "They'll tell you they have a license and that everything they're doing is legit."

If it's hard for experienced cops to distinguish regulated weed from black market products, it can be nearly impossible for average consumers. Advocates of marijuana legalization say it's disturbing that unregulated weed plays such a big role.

"We're talking about a market that lacks transparency and accountability," said Paul Armentano, head of NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. He said any time a consumer product is being sold without proper regulation, it's risky.

"Whether I was getting cannabis or alcohol or my broccoli from an entirely unregulated market, I'd be concerned about any number of issues," Armentano said.

An officer with the Law Enforcement Division of California's Department of Cannabis Control confiscates unlicensed marijuana plants.'s Department of Cannabis Control confiscates unlicensed marijuana plants.

An officer with the California Department of Cannabis Control confiscates bunches of unlicensed marijuana plants.

Black market weed thrives, raising questions for consumers​

Advocates of cannabis decriminalization hoped legal weed companies would quickly move past this problem, eclipsing criminal growers and processors.

So far, the opposite has happened. Vanda Felbab-Brown, who studies criminal drug markets for the Brookings Institution, said regulated cannabis producers often compete with a growing network of criminal gangs often rooted in mainland China.

"They're spreading from the West Coast all the way up to Maine," she said.

According to Felbab-Brown, Chinese criminal organizations are drawn to the marijuana business because it's a relatively low risk to gain a foothold in communities. There's relatively little law enforcement pressure, unlike with harder drugs such as fentanyl and methamphetamines.

"These illegal cannabis cultivation plantations are used by the Chinese criminal groups for laundering money, but there is also increasingly an intertwining with human smuggling of Chinese people into the U.S. that go through some of those networks. They wind up in fact being enslaved at the plantations," she said.

NPR emailed Chinese officials to ask about the role of China-based organized crime in the U.S. cannabis industry but haven't heard back. In the past, Beijing has suggested the U.S. is pointing fingers at China to divert attention from America's drug and crime problems.

The Law Enforcement Division of California's Department of Cannabis Control waits outside of one of the three private residences raided for unlicensed marijuana production.'s Department of Cannabis Control waits outside of one of the three private residences raided for unlicensed marijuana production.

The Law Enforcement Division of California's Department of Cannabis Control waits outside of one of the three private residences raided for unlicensed marijuana production.

Experts say criminal cannabis sellers wind up outcompeting licensed vendors. They don't pay taxes or costly fees, which means their prices are often lower. They can also sell their product anywhere in the country, ignoring federal laws that prevent legal companies from shipping cannabis across state lines.

Black market weed then often winds up on store shelves, packaged in ways that can make it indistinguishable from legal regulated cannabis.

"There's going to be mold and these banned pesticide and herbicides that are getting into the illegal product so that's a grave concern," said Bill Jones, head of enforcement for California's Department of Cannabis Control. "I'm not sure all consumers are aware of that."

What should consumers do?​

With cannabis markets still difficult to navigate, experts interviewed by NPR said the most reliable way to find regulated cannabis is in licensed shops in states and communities where they're allowed to operate. This often means paying a higher price, but the tradeoff in quality can be significant.

A customer browses products for sale at the Green Goddess Collective legal cannabis dispensary in the Venice neighborhood of Los Angeles, California. State officials and many cannabis experts hope licensed shops will eventually displace the booming black market industry.

A customer browses products for sale at the Green Goddess Collective legal cannabis dispensary in the Venice neighborhood of Los Angeles, California. State officials and many cannabis experts hope licensed shops will eventually displace the booming black market industry.

Many states where recreational cannabis is legal, including California and New Jersey and New York now have online advice to help people locate and buy legal marijuana. Double-check your brick-and-mortar shop to make sure it's licensed and reputable.

Even when working through a reliable seller, cannabis experts said it's a good idea to ask questions about sourcing and potency.

Everyone interviewed by NPR for this project said they expect it to get easier over time for people who choose to buy and use legal marijuana. Most pointed to the fact that America has gone through this kind of transition before with another popular consumer product: alcohol.

Alcohol prohibition was repealed in December 1933, but many states kept liquor bans on the books into the 1950s, creating the same kind of patchwork we now see with marijuana laws. Liquor bootleggers and smugglers continued to operate for years.

"When you move from prohibition to legalization, it takes time," said Beau Kilmer an expert on marijuana markets and co-director of the Rand Drug Policy Research Center.

A restricted entry sign is posted to a location in the Goldridge neighborhood.

A restricted entry sign is posted to a location in the Goldridge neighborhood.

According to Kilmer, many states have mismanaged this transition, focusing too much on regulating legal weed companies without helping them compete with criminal organizations.

"After [states] pass legalization, they'll spend a couple of years coming up with the licensing regime and figuring out what the regulations are going to be and issuing licenses, but there hasn't been a lot of focus on what to do about the illegal market. And in a lot of places, enforcement just hasn't been a priority."

This is changing in some places. In part to help legal operators compete, New York City has been cracking down on unlicensed marijuana retail stores. California officials say they seized nearly $200 million worth of illegally grown cannabis last year.

Despite these efforts, black market weed is expected to remain "pervasive" for years to come, according to state officials and drug policy experts.

In Fairfield, Sgt. McAtee watched as a truck backed up to another illegal grow house, preparing to haul away a big crop of seized cannabis. He said this crop might have wound up on shelves anywhere in the U.S.

"A lot of the places we hit, they're shipping their cannabis out of state, where they can make ten-fold [the profit] you'd make in California," he said.

SOURCE: https://www.npr.org/2025/02/05/g-s1-46564/cannabis-market-illegal-weed-consumers
they complained and pointed out the mold and chemicals on property but not one officer had on a mask :dontknow:
 

The shops up here in Ontario pop up like weeds. The big producers went to the stock market. Hedge funds dumped millions in, and it was a pump and dump scheme.

Large producers couldn't compete with small producers that are actually big producers in another forest.

The reservations are one big pot shop. They don't charge tax on pot or gas.
Basically the law enforcement stays away from the reservation because they'll block the railways. 🤣

The government run stores loose money, the grey/shadow run shops seem to survive.

Medical exemption 150 plants a yr.
Everyone else 4 plants a year.

Old time growers don't grow for sale as the competition is too high, and the market is flooded.

Knowing many that have taken it up since it became legal. Many now plant their ass in the chair and do little as possible in life now.
But they claim life is good 👍
 

Knowing many that have taken it up since it became legal. Many now plant their ass in the chair and do little as possible in life now.
To me, that's just sad.

But they claim life is good 👍
But, it's their life to live, not mine, so what do I know? As long as they're happy and not harming others...
 

To me, that's just sad.


But, it's their life to live, not mine, so what do I know? As long as they're happy and not harming others...
I think it seems a bit different with some. They might of tried it 40-50yrs ago.
Now they tried it again, and they're sat down.

I've known a couple that have just rusted out, but their claim they were worn out.
From being pretty active to not, and the only thing they changed was taking up smoking.

Just an observation that's all.
Last toke was 38 yrs ago in May.
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom