Spanish Cache in Central Texas

[summsicc]

Where is this place at?

 

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[austin]

An oak tree with "X's" on it that would have any historical significance would have to be 300+ years old!! Texas has many oaks but there are only a few that are actually over 300 yrs old.

I have looked into the production of gold in Texas and it is scarce! Mostly in West Texas. I find little or no records of significant production in the areas in the tales. The Heath mine produced very little. Llano river does give up a bit of gold but it is really insignificant.


There are a thousand tales of 'treasure' but like one of the previous posters, I think most are pure 'tale'! Actual records, and facts do not support the story.

AMEN brother...

 

[Sallysue]

But its fun thinking about it

 

[Sallysue]

The limb was cut account the land was being develope and it was in the way of a new road

 

[Tejaas]

I was reading the post and figured that I'd offer a bit of info ad backstory in regards to Indians in Texas/Spanish Gold/ Treasure Legends as they relate to Texas to anyone interested! It's long winded so I apologize!

Think back to the subject of Spanish exploration from school....

First Explorations....Columbus-Ponce de Leon time frames = Caribbean/ Florida area

Coronado and the Spanish/Mexican treks after him.... Northern Mexico/ Southwest North America

I am a Blanco county native... The county got its name from the first European explorations (1700s attempts to bring Christianity) to what is now Texas.. "Blanco" being derived by the Spanish speaking explorers from the white limestone beds of the still-now-known-as Blanco river...


My roundabout point being that the major inhabitants in what was later to become Texas were extremely resistant to change... The "X" is of Latin origin.... A surviving, unevolved example being the Roman numeral TEN. Therefore an "X" would be a figure lost to the Native American people... As their culture preceded the Easterns/ Europeans by a long stretch.

And in regards to the arrowheads, yes in the TX hill country they literally are strewn about... The high quantity of seasonal water and rough terrain offered good water, protection from enemies, and great hunting for game. My family owns a large scale ranch that happens to also have been the site of many seasonal camp and hunting grounds... Complete with dozens of middens and a burial mound. But keep in mind, arrowheads can date back to as much as 15,000 years ago. treasure legends in Texas can only go back to MAYBE 400 years.

Kinda funny to think that some Spanish explorers may have took a break from being awesome and walked around picking up a few arrowheads that had been laying around already for thousands of years huh? Haha!
Hell, who knows? Maybe some of the ones I have picked up where PREVIOUSLY picked up by a spaniard, who then lost it himself, then for ME to be the next finder hahaha!

Lets talk about that 400 years I mentioned earlier.

Texas was occupied largely by what alot of folks refer to as "Plains" tribes.... In actuality there are/were different "Nations"... a nation sometimes comprised of more than one tribe... And a tribe consisted of "bands".

Example:
1.The Peneteka Comanche (occupied the greater Central and Northern Texas/Oklahoma/Wyoming & Colorado area)----> a BAND of the greater Comanche group

2. The Northern Shoshone ( occupied parts of the Wyoming/Idaho/Utah area)-----> a BAND of the greater Shoshone group


The Shoshone and Comanche ( both horse cultures of allied native people)-----> the above listed Bands are among numerous groups and form these collective TRIBES.

All share and control the Comanche NATION, the collective group of allied tribes occupying the greater Midwest and parts of southwest North America-- including northern TX and Central Texas.

Keep in mind that territories would/could/did change hands... And sometimes were even occupied jointly... Texas is a fine example of this.
The Apache occupied Southern and West Texas therefore their territory touched the southern edge of Comanche territory.

The Lipan Apache and the Penateka Comanche in general where the big names in what would later become Texas. yes, there were others... But for simplification lets stick with these two as the key groups.

The Apache and Comanche people as a whole were always enemies, therefore The Lipans and Penatekas in Texas were constantly at war and harassing each other... All the while neither cared for the Europeans (first the Spanish, later Mexican) slowly surveying/occupying their land... All the while spreading christianity and taking advantage of all the natural resources the Spanish reported back to home... This is where the gold TALES begin!!!

Please keep in mind that we are speaking of the time period that ranges from the first European explorations of Texas until the early 1800s... Texas became a state in 1845... And 1847 saw the Comanche sign the Meusebach treaty for peace with the German settlers near Fredericksburg, TX... And in 1875 the last of the Comanche surrendered to Federal forces and were moved to the reservation in Oklahoma. On the other hand, The Apaches never saw peace in Texas... Hence the MAJOR reason for introduction of federal cavalry forces in the Pre-Post Civil War timeframe.

Gold is the widely accepted "Spanish treasure" stereotype and for good reason... But in Texas, Silver was actually just as if not more popular... And was more readily available. Mexico STILL remains as the top silver producing country today... And until 1836 Texas and Mexico were one and the same!!!!

Gold and Silver were NOT valued by the Indians as it was by the Spanish... And the extreme lengths the Spanish would go to for collecting it is a large contributing reason that the Indians developed their contempt for the greedy newcomers. They would constantly raid the gold and silver parties and harass at every chance... And due to extreme weight of the jackloads they couldn't escape quickly (they used the Donkey as pack animals, as they could carry a lot more weight each than a horse--- male donkey is known as a JACK.... hence the term "jackload" in texas treasure legends!)

To counter this, the Spanish would either hide the valuable ore and transport it back in small load trips which enabled them to move quicker thru the country... Or make BIG trips and BURY IT/HIDE IN CAVES/ETC at the first sight of trouble with the Indians! Many times the parties were caught up to and destroyed after hiding the gold and silver, never to pass along word of the hidden buried treasure/cave/etc, or maybe that one lucky fella would make it back and with good intentions would speak of how before he escaped he marked a tree with an "X", scratched a cross in a rock, drove a miners spike Into an old oak tree/ etc...

These markers are a FACT. I have seen two different ones, in two areas maybe a hundred miles apart, with my OWN eyes here in the TX hill country... I suppose the markers could be for anything such as water markers, a nearby grave intended to be exhumed on their return trip home, or maybe even a bored Soldado passing the time... And I acknowledge that it is guaranteed their is at least that ONE random lost Jackload of gold or silver buried in the Texas caliche somewhere... But many before us have lost their lives or sanity looking for it never to be found!

Jim Bowie believed it. So much he himself joined and funded an expedition to chase one such legend- the search for the San Saba Mine - FACT.

I have personally seen his name carved by hand into the stone ruins at the Presidio de San Saba... I have the picture if anyone is I interested!

Some say he DID find it, and died with the precise location when the Alamo fell... Never able to return to claim his prize...

And so some still search!


Frank Dobie keeps tons of the legends alive in his various books... And for a lot of you he did alot of the legwork rounding up the facts and passed down accounts... Even the maps and diagrams of some account by that random eyewitness finder to some lost treasure as recalled by their great grandson/granddaughter/etc and whatnot...

And people still search!

I mainly felt compelled to write this to attempt to clear up what I feel is a misleading yet commonly encountered myth... That Indians marked treasure spots, and that there is "Indian gold" out there and so on... And that's just not the case!

Spanish gold.... That's a different matter.... Maybe/probably?

A gold wedding ring waiting or your detector to pick up.... OF COURSE! Haha!


Anyways, to whoever reads this I apologize for my rambling! I am 26 and that is too young to lecture and reminisce like the old timers with wisdom like the ones I grew up around.

As always, 7th generation Texan here way too proud and self-proclaimed to be a subject matter expert on all things TX History/Civil War History related...

And also as always, If anyone ever has any questions or needs any Info/maps/legends/etc on anything within the confines of the subject "Texas" -- just shoot me a line with what ya need and chances are I can pull ya copies/pictures/info/etc from my extensive research library here at the house!

Happy Hunting!

Sent from Tejaas' IPhone

 

[Sallysue]

Good post Tejaas I heard several tales of my area which is Bell County over the years of buried stuff

 

[Tejaas]

Haha Bell County?

I have lived in Killeen and Harker Heights for the last 8 years!

Yep, you guessed it. Fort Hood-1st Cav. Haha.

Sent from Tejaas' IPhone

 

[Sallysue]

I live close to ya but a whole lot older

 

[Produce Guy]

I belive there's mention of this in Jay Frank Dobie book about buried Mexican gold here in Texas,other than that go to libraries in major colleges and look up old newspaper stories.

 

[jas415]

Sallysue, what was that in the picture? Size? Metal?

Anyway, regarding buried gold, yes I am totally positive there is some somewhere in Texas. The odds are that someone buried some gold here, but the overwhelming odds are it is buried in the mountains or valleys of west Texas. The gold mines were in New Mexico and Arizona, so why would they pack ore east to the Texas hill country when there were well established trails from Albuquerque along the Rio Grande to Mexico? I suppose it is possible that for some reason, indian uprising, whatever, a group decided to head east to get to the San Antonio area then south. Could have happened but the Sapnish kept pretty good records and if there were some instances I would think it is documented - for Gold. I completely agree on the silver part as there is a large abandoned silver mine down around Presideo I believe. But, on the other side of that is there ANY factual records of silver production at all, in the San Antonio, Austin, Llano, hill country? I dont know as I havent did the digging in books and records to find out.

A more credible story is the Horsehead Crossing story regarding Maximillian (think it was Maximillian). I even went there, walked around the place, took pictures, etc., and off to the east is the supposed hills where they buried the wagonloads. I even did a bit of satelitte imagery of the area to see if there were GPR data available to indicate anything in the area. But with 300 years of building, rain, sandstorms, surface features change.

This 'buried gold, lost treasure' is sort of like a sexy nightgown!! Gets the fire up for a short time!!

 

[Sallysue]

This piece of property has been siting idle . Looks like somebody stuck a tree through that hole in that rock years ago . After so many years it busted the rock . I know that about 3 or 4 miles from it there was a stage coach depot. because I found it . If you imagine that rock is an arrow it point the direction towards where the river was which is now Belton Lake. Also a guy told me that lives close by that he was told by an old timer that some stuff was buried in that area . I agree lots of told me LOL but it fun thinking about

 

[EccentricInTexas]

The story with the Germans gold he buried some on a hill near where they buried the other. You might check the top of that island in lake Stilhouse. As for Ace's cave I know a guy that went into one in the same area that he said the one he heard about was. It was empty and the walls were covered with names and dates going back to the mid 1800's so its possible that if there was treasure in that cave it may have been cleaned out by now.

 

[williamjo]

times were really hard back then, people got pretty desperate if it were really there it's probably gone now.

 

[Sallysue]

Sometime I think when I am doing an ole house site from the late 1800 hundreds they probable didn"t have 2 nickles to rub together

 

[jas415]

When we really think about the old ranch house, the farm house, yes there is a probablilty there is something of interest long buried there. But as you said Sallysue, most of thiese folks didnt even have a pot to pee in, much less have gold to bury. They worked, bartered their labors for other goods, and basically subsisted trying to eek out a living from year to year.

The Spanish in New Mexico almost never ventured east into the Panhandle because of the Indains. They almost always traveled in army troop guarded groups down the Rio Grande. I read a lot of books, like 3 to 6 a week, and the only really serious 'treasure' stories I have faith in are the tales of shipwrecks off shore. Those on land have had way too many people looking for them for far too long. Galveston Island has enough Treasure and Pirate tales to last all of us several generations.

But, the reading and the 'imagination' is indeed addictive! Addictive enough that I have traveled to look at the areas where some of the tales originate and they are truly fascinating.

 

[austin]

Ok, I have a little info for you two. If you want to know about the Los Almagres or Lost Bowie Mine, read C.F. Eckhardt's book, "The Lost San Saba Mines". You will be amazed and the material came from the grandson of one of the men who went with Bowie. Bowie's name is carved at the presidio at Menard, BUT, it was changed. It originally said, Bowie con su tropa, but was defaced to become Bowie Mine. The Los Almagres is near Packsaddle Mtn. and is on private property. I have seen the old shaft which is, like Charlie says in his book, filled in by dirt from another shaft which people call the Boyd Shaft. Yes, there is silver, but even at today's prices, it is very low grade ore and not worth the effort. There are places in the Hill Country(Llano Uplift Area) where there is gold and silver, but not much. And it is private ranchland. There is no lost mine. It makes for a great story, but that's all it is. The reson that Mexico never tried to develop mines in Texas was that there is just too much silver in Mexico to be bothered by low grade ore, transportation problems and hostile native americans. I have communicated on this site with people in that area who still pan and dredge for gold and find some, but they will never get rich. Again, read Eckhardt's book and a bunch of your questions may be answered. Now, having said that, keep looking for things buried by others up there. Valuables, including what you seek were stolen and buried and you may be the one's to find it. I spent a great deal of time just looking for "stuff" and found a bunch. Keep looking, you will too. PM me if you have any questions and I will try and be helpful. I was an adjunct professor of History for a decade at Palo Alto College and have a master's in History(Spanish Borderlands). I'm 64 now, but have been there and done that, all my adult life. Good luck on your hunt...

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

great to hear about this Texas stuff. my dad is from Texas and is 85yrs old im going to ask him tonite about some treasure stories . HIS MOM WAS FULL BLOODIED INDIAN .

 

[Option C]

Are you guys millions deep in Siv... Yet?
I'm in San Antonio area and would like to go out
Huntin

 

[dbigkahunna]

I grew up in Sweetwater TX. My dad was a pumper for Texaco in Maryneal. One of his leases was on the Dickson ranch in Maryneal and he was friends with the ranch foreman. The foreman had a arrow head collection that went all over his house. He also had part of a helmet, axe head, dagger handle and a pike he had found on the ranch. He also had some assorted forged chain links he found near where he had found the other items. He was always going to take my dad and I to where he found it. He had more stories than I had attention span at the time.
He never had the BS about their being a stash of Spanish treasure there. But the area was well in the loop the Spanish would have traveled. Last I saw him was in 1979 and he had moved to town. All his stuff was in boxes. I always wonder what happened to that helmet and pike end. I think he died in 83 or 84.
I bet it all got thrown away.
I get over by Horsehead crossing frequently. I have heard all the stories about Maximilien's treasure being buried around Castle Gap. Considering Mexico was broke and of all the trails to get what ever was left of the Mexican treasury, he sent it north to almost certain capture by Indians, Comanchero's, common robbers or the typical lowlife that found its way to post civil war Texas instead to Vera Cruz? I don't buy that.
However I do believe there are caches buried near the crossing by owners that did not make it through the night. But verifying this is impossible. You can still kick up some horseshoes and odd pieces of tack around the crossing though. There was a lot of people that went though the gap and across the crossing so I believe there is opportunity for finding something there. But this is all private property so ask permission before entering on either side. Heading south from Crane on 385 you get to the gap, take a good pair of binoculars and look west toward the crossing. During late spring or early fall in the late afternoon you can see the route from the gap to the crossing. From the gap to the crossing was a hard half day ride. There were a lot of camps made between the gap and the crossing.
Lots of opportunity, but I really cannot believe there is any large treasure.

 

[TexasTwister]

I just found this site - very interesting. Noss had a partner named Tony Jolly. Tony was interviewed by Unsolved Mysteries about the gold, many years ago, and ended up being good friends with Robert Stack. Tony was a good friend of my family, but, sadly, he died in 2006. He told us about the treasure (now THAT was an interesting story) and all the not so good things that happened to him and others that had anything to do with it. He was a WWII pilot, a professional cowboy and roping partner of Ben Johnson (the actor), and just a good & honest man. But that part of his life (Noss, the gold and the gov't) bothered him a lot. Somewhere in my VHS library I have that Unsolved Mysteries interview.