Spanish Clock Map.........

[Twisted Fork]

This is the basic clocking grid for Spanish mining sites, mapped with a semi centralized "Windrose" clock axle (bolder, & tree or t cross carved monument). "Line in" is a mapped approach from out of the area, connecting overland triangulation, bridging one mineral zone to another mineral zone. Small triangles are infield sets; corner 3 is furthest away from the corner A apex (Apex is also a rock and tree monument). If you have a four digit map date to work with, use the last two numbers as individual compass digits in degrees, as you stand at corner 3 (example: 1847, 18_ _ , aim between 4 & 7 degrees, winged away from corner 2 as point 0). Each triangle reveals at least one concealed mine, and or the possibility of a second one, or low grade decoy mine and or concealed vent. Air vent positions vary and are in general, are floated map points. Some air vents have a small gold bar cache, 80 feet or so above them, between two rock sections. Twisted

 

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[Leones Corazon]

Interesting....my site in az. has one of these with some slight variations.
Although i would have to believe the line from "A" to the windrose should be an
exact degree mark on a compass...which i will not mention...but i will say i'll bet "A"
is dead on north....

The pic is a scan from a book i see...care to mention what book it came from?

DW

 

[Twisted Fork]

Howdy AZ.

One of the two triangles may point N. or S. through the apex, with the other turned sideways like an axe head. Funny you should mention Arizona as this is the state the grid was founded in. Each site has some differences in the setup based mainly on terrain variations, but this layout is the basic. The windrose is the center of the clock dial. One triangle is at 11, and another around 23 minutes before 12. The big hand and little hand can be reversed to fit the location. The drawing is one of my own and the basic system stems from a half dozen locations across Utah and Arizona. To my knowledge, it was used everywhere a Mason hid his booty. I would not rule out E. and W. as these guys were quite crafty. Twisted

 

[Leones Corazon]

I am surprised i am the only soul to answer this post....hmmm.

So where are you from?

DW

 

[Dave45]

educate me what is a windrose

 

[Twisted Fork]

I live in Utah now. My experiences with a Peralta site in Arizona started back in 1982 with a family legend. So much supernatural crap happened out there that today I am about the only person left out of a dozen who would even consider going back and that would be a difficult proposition. The concept of the windrose dates back to a magical mountain of Italian legend that was said to be riddled with caves and ancient treasures of kingdoms past. A rock monument on it's top was considered to be the cornerstone or axle of the earth. Columbus and the other explorers used it as a fixed point on land, from which to find their bearings. There are now different opinions as to what mountain it was. This is where the monks passed it on from. Here in the west, it is either a tree and stone, a stone stack or table rock and a boulder aside, or a cross on a boulder. Generally situated on and between one end of a gold vein to it's opposite end. An axle if you will.

Twisted

 

[Leones Corazon]

Well...i am only 20 miles from the utah line....lol.

Peralta stuff in the bradshaws? As they did also have holdings there as well as told by the early records of the weaver party i believe.

I will say....if one knows where to look...there are some rather cool things in the bradshaws that predate the pauline weaver party by a long shot.

PM me with the story if you will...i may have a vested interest in heading your warnings....

My windrose as you will is used to get around a smallish hill....marker number one is a stone with 3 drill holes......xxx degree's off of this stone is a window....thru said window is the 2nd triangle carved into a cliff face....


DW

 

[Dave45]

Hey TF thanx for the ed, sounds as though youv been at this for awhile

 

[VICTORIO]

TF I'm still lost. Am I supposed to shoot a straight line from each of the hands on the the Windrose and then search for markers such as stones forming a Triangle.

 

[Twisted Fork]

Finding the windrose will put you somewhere near center of the mineral deposit. You will be standing at the center of the clock dial. First try North as 12 o'clock, otherwise try South as 12. You still have East and West as possibilities as well. It depends on the direction the vein runs in; as close to straight up and down on the dial as possible. Knowing the direction of the vein based on fault lines and surface colors should be the first question before hunting down markers. Begin where the red orangish and grey colors come together, and then look for signs of quarts. They sought after the little 1/8th inch thick quartz stringers with red splotches or iron rust running in it. If the locations formation shows cave like steam activity ( hydrothermal crystals) with these brown yellowish quartz elements combined, you have to be close. This is generally the matrix you will see surfacing as it leads away from a hidden passage. The miner's trick or last ditch effort to fool other prospectors was to start the portal out away from it in the crappy stone, rather than directly in the vein like most folks. Twisted

 

[seekeroforo]

Can someone tell me if a windrose is an exact marker (what doesit look like or what do I look for), or if it known to be any marker and it is up to you to determine that is what you have for a marker?

I saw mention of a cross or something.

This thread has caught my attention, as it may "pay" off for me with knowledge learned.

Thanks to all that can offer their help in advancing my knowledge from "green" to Gold.

~seeker~

 

[jimmygoat]

Hello, I am fairly new to T.N. and don't know much about how the spanish mined, but wouldn't it be hard to conceal the tailings from these old mines? How did they do that? Jimmygoat

 

[trailseeker4]

The Spanish clock map is very intriguing. I believe I may have a site that applies to this layout, but I don't totally understand the concept. The first picture is a trangle of boulders. The left boulder has a 4ft cross carved on it with other symbols. The window rock is above the triangle on a hillside. The turtle is in a wash on the left the cross rock. The right side has monuments as well. Any help would be great.

 

[CanadianTrout]

Hey guys. I haven't been posting much recently but as usual I keep abreast of all the posts here.

Trailseek4:

Very interesting pics! The window rock is actually called a "hoyo" and is meant to be looked through as a sighting aid to find the next marker etc. You will have to determine which side you are to stand on to look through it. Yours seems to be on an obvious angle. By your picture if you look through it it appears to be pointing down into the immediate vicinity. This may be an "omega" sign, meaning you are at the end of the trail. If you are to stand on the other side it appears you would be looking sort of up and off into the distance. This should point to the next marker/sign. As to which is the correct side to stand on I can't tell you. When looking through the hoyo you may or may not also see a little chunk of rock or something that has been left there intentionally. It will be sticking out from anywhere on the inside wall and is also a sighting aid. Like an iron sight on a rifle.

The turtle rock is quite nice. Looks like, well, a turtle. This is a good sign as well as it still has its head attached. Head busted off generally means the cache has already been retrieved. I didn't notice any obvious front or rear flippers which sometimes can be a directional indicator. Although I can't see the other side so who knows.

The cross is huge eh? Crosses with all their various meanings and shapes always mess me up so I will let one of the more experienced folks handle that one. I can't tell if it is old or modern graffiti. Did you chalk it for better visability? I believe the other scribbles (white lines) to be graffiti and have no bearing on what we are talking about here.

Also, something about the right hand rock of the triangle interests me. The shape? Owl? I dunno...

Over all I believe all these marks are used in conjunction with each other. Would love to see more pics.

There are only a few posters in this section of TNet that I would trust their opinion so hopefully one of these more knowledgeable people will come along soon.


(P.S. - How'd I do Old Dog?)

 

[trailseeker4]

Canadian Trout,

The carvings on the rock were, in fact, chalked. All the carvings were just real light, and in the same condition so they appeared to have been done at the same time. Unfortunately, there were more but I just couldn't make them out. If you notice, just above the cross is a triangle of dots with two lines between them. As for the boulder on the right, I see a heart laying on it's side with something just below that. It very well could be an owl. And the third boulder seems to be have a face on it. The hoyo seems to look at a park a fair distance away with nothing of notable interest in it.? The other side looks at the ground 5ft away.? There aren't any legs on the turtle, but there is a heart carved on it.

 

[tertiaryjim]

Trailseeker4 Sun angle can often help those faint lines show better, indeed , Omega signs typically are designed to show in the 12:00 to 2:00 time frame and side trails/signs from 9:00 to 11:00 or 3:00 to 5:00 . While getting the hang of it and training your "eye" its good to take lots of pictures from all angles and differing times. Get the surrounding areas . Take pictures on the hike in and out .Yea, it's a lot to sort out but great surprises can turn up. Don't ignore the smaller rocks . If thy are solidly anchored in the ground they were sometimes used for small but important signs/information . From another beginner,Welcome to the fun. Jim

 

[RockHopper2]

TS4 Take a pic of your hoyo straight through looking at the ground, your next move will probobly show up there. I will get more pics of the owl and surounding area you ask about. Thanks RH2.

 

[minetres]

The turtle has its head and it means the treasure is still there. The heart means the treasure is Gold, and your treasure is within 150 feet. I proved this to be true many times here in New Mexico, but the treasures had already been moved. I know other hunters who have made out very well with these signs. There may also be many small caches there also. I would spend a lot of time on this site. If you can get a two box detector there it may help. You have a triangle of rocks there also You have found a great site.

Good luck
Minetres

 

[Old Dog]

Gentlemen,
I have stated many times that a turtle is no indicator of gold or silver.
Sometimes treasure is not what you percieve it to be. (I have a turtle pointing at a permanent water source)

A turtle missing the head is an old wives tale and totally untrue. it has been passed down (by treasurehunters) for years, only to create security for a site. Early t-hunters would break the head off to make other T-hunters believe the treasure is gone and thus give up. I have proved it over and over. (earlier pictures show the head in place)
Lets not perpetrate old falshoods if we know better.

 

[CanadianTrout]

Gentlemen,
I have stated many times that a turtle is no indicator of gold or silver.
Sometimes treasure is not what you percieve it to be. (I have a turtle pointing at a permanent water source)

A turtle missing the head is an old wives tale and totally untrue. it has been passed down (by treasurehunters) for years, only to create security for a site. Early t-hunters would break the head off to make other T-hunters believe the treasure is gone and thus give up. I have proved it over and over. (earlier pictures show the head in place)
Lets not perpetrate old falshoods if we know better.

Well ah crap. I guess I just got a failing grade OD??

Honestly, I dont remember reading about the turtle head busted off being a myth. Well I won't forget now.


Really I want your opinion on the other stuff i said.