spearhead??
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tomclark
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Nice point, Allen. Nice size and work. Not used up.
I think it's a knife.
I think it's a knife.
P
pickaway
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Nice artifact
RGINN
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Cool find. Many points that we were calling spearheads were actually knives. In fact, there may not be any actual 'spearheads'. That'll cause controversy. I'll grant that there were many ceremonial blades that functioned as spear heads, but I can't see any evidence of actual working 'spear' points, except the lance points that were made of metal. It wouldn't be feasible to flake out a blade about 6 inches long only to have it break the first time you used it. Go try it. Anybody else have any views on that?
Pinellas Man
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Nice one Allen, real nice 8)
RobKruzan
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Nice One...
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted on: Yesterday at 08:18:33 PMPosted by: RGINN
Cool find. Many points that we were calling spearheads were actually knives. In fact, there may not be any actual 'spearheads'. That'll cause controversy. I'll grant that there were many ceremonial blades that functioned as spear heads, but I can't see any evidence of actual working 'spear' points, except the lance points that were made of metal. It wouldn't be feasible to flake out a blade about 6 inches long only to have it break the first time you used it.
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I disagree and in my opinion there were many spear heads that looked like as ceromonial blades but in reality they was made to be used,Bison and Mammoth are big animals,It would take atleast a 5-6 inch spearhead to do a good amount of damage to an animal that large I have seen bison shot with a bow some would not die until shot 3-4 times that is with a small broadhead thats got nothing to do with what your saying but there is evidence that spear heads was used for actual hunting flint is sharp if you think about it there isnt much room between one rib bone to the next so a long thin blade would certainly help your chances they had a good supply of flints so a broken head wouldnt hurt them any I cant imagine how many 4-5 inch drill bits they made and broke same with spears.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted on: Yesterday at 08:18:33 PMPosted by: RGINN
Cool find. Many points that we were calling spearheads were actually knives. In fact, there may not be any actual 'spearheads'. That'll cause controversy. I'll grant that there were many ceremonial blades that functioned as spear heads, but I can't see any evidence of actual working 'spear' points, except the lance points that were made of metal. It wouldn't be feasible to flake out a blade about 6 inches long only to have it break the first time you used it.
_______________________________________________________________________________
I disagree and in my opinion there were many spear heads that looked like as ceromonial blades but in reality they was made to be used,Bison and Mammoth are big animals,It would take atleast a 5-6 inch spearhead to do a good amount of damage to an animal that large I have seen bison shot with a bow some would not die until shot 3-4 times that is with a small broadhead thats got nothing to do with what your saying but there is evidence that spear heads was used for actual hunting flint is sharp if you think about it there isnt much room between one rib bone to the next so a long thin blade would certainly help your chances they had a good supply of flints so a broken head wouldnt hurt them any I cant imagine how many 4-5 inch drill bits they made and broke same with spears.
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RobKruzan
Full Member
I just want to add that is anyone can show me actual evidence that any flint blade was used for ceremonial purpose I will be glad to see it Im not saying there isnt but I am having trouble believing it so if anyone has proof on the mississippian sword or any other flint blade being strictly ceremonial I am intrested in seeing. Not being rude in anyway shape or form just wanting to see evidence that supports this theory.
ShowmeMoflint
Sr. Member
Nice one
Muddy Feet
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Very nice find.
Neanderthal
Bronze Member
I'm stuck in the house (health reasons) and have nothing better to do at the moment, so I'm going to make a long winded post. Hopefully some will find it educational and it won't fall on deaf ears.
I'll start out by saying that 95% of what we find has been used, some to exhaustion or near it. Many of these small 1 1/2" points that we find started out life at much greater lengths. We have to keep that in mind and always look for the tell-tale signs that will tell us the story of their life.
The vast majority of the flint "Spearheads" we find are nothing more than knives or similar utilitarian tools. Spears may have been used to some degree, but perhaps not to the extent that some may think. Let's discuss why "spearhead" isn't always the best option.
While alot of people like to envision Paleo man as an --deleted-- grunting hairy dude with a short fuzzy toga and pointy stick, that's far from the truth. Early man in the Americas was a very intelligent person. He knew that if he ran up to an elephant and just started jabbing it with his pointy stick, the outcome most likely wasn't going to be that good. Instead, he made use of the terrain, natural traps (as well as devised one) and other tools to help him with his quarry. One of the greatest tools at his disposal was the atlatl. The atlatl could be thrown much further, with great force, and with greater accuracy than any spear. It would allow them to kill at greater distances, without as much risk to life & limb. We know that in France, the atlatl was used as early as 17,000 years ago. In the Americas, we know for a fact that Paleo man used the atlatl also. Folsom were most likely designed for atlatl use, and perhaps some Clovis also. There have been been atlatl found in context with Mammoth remains. If the truth be known, the thrusting spear / lance probably played a much larger role in the late Mississippian and Historic time periods than any other. It was used effectively by plains horsemen (along with others) to help take down bison as well as in warefare. However, during the historic times the heads of these lances were commonly made of metal obtained by the Europeans.
What about those large Dovetail, Hardin, Daltons, etc? What are they then? Simply, most all of them are knives. How do we know that those big Doves and Daltons are knives? Beveling is an easy clue. Beveling is the bi-product of being resharpened several times. Beveling is another ingenious thing that early man done. They found that if they would resharpen just one face of each side, instead of all four, that it would maintain sharp edge, but they could get twice as many sharpenings out of that blade. Their blades would last twice as long, because it would only lose flint at 1/2 the rate. Not all aboriginals employed this beveling technique, but many did, especially during early archaic times. Does this mean all knives are beveled? No, but beveled artifacts are generally a sure-fire sign of them being used as knives. So, Bolen Bevels are all resharpened (see how screwed up typology can be?). Ok, Ok, I got off track - back to the subject.
"Ceremonial" was brought up, so I'll address my opinions on it. I hate the word, almost as bad as the phrase "transitional paleo". The reason is because it's usually used as a cop-out, in a generic sense. When somebody can't make heads or tails of a point, they will undoubtedly bring up the "C" word. If it has flaking left instead of right, or if one barb is longer than another, or if it's 1/2" longer than normal..yup, people bring out the word ceremonial. I'm not saying that some items aren't ceremonial or have a special purpose, of course they do. I just think it's used entirely too much to try to explain something that they can't make sense of. I'm a somewhat accomplished knapper, have been doing it around 30 years. However, when I go to make a Hardin sometimes the material (or me) will be having a bad day and it will wind up looking like something that makes me scratch my head. This doesn't make it ceremonial. I'm sure the natives went through the same thing on a regular basis. Unless it's found in certain context, there really isn't much telling if something was ceremonial or not. Many HAVE been found in ceremonial context though. They have been found in burials covered with red ochre, or buried in doorways, or in other situations that lend creedence to them having been for that purpose.
Here's something yall may find interesting. The "Sweetwater Biface". Most of us are familiar with this large blade, considered to be one of the thinnest flint artifacts ever found. It's a monster, and the thinness will blow your mind. Gregory Perino and others have stated that it had to be ceremonial and was never used. To tell the truth, I always thought that also. Anyways, we have the Sweetwater over where I work, and I put it under a microscope last year to examine it. When I examined the ends of it, I noticed that it has use wear on the ends. It has been utilized, not just a little..but quite a bit. It's still possible that it could have served a special ceremonial function, but now there is the distinct possibility also that it was a utilitarian knife that just hadn't been resharpened yet.
Crap, had more to type, but have to go for now.
I'll start out by saying that 95% of what we find has been used, some to exhaustion or near it. Many of these small 1 1/2" points that we find started out life at much greater lengths. We have to keep that in mind and always look for the tell-tale signs that will tell us the story of their life.
The vast majority of the flint "Spearheads" we find are nothing more than knives or similar utilitarian tools. Spears may have been used to some degree, but perhaps not to the extent that some may think. Let's discuss why "spearhead" isn't always the best option.
While alot of people like to envision Paleo man as an --deleted-- grunting hairy dude with a short fuzzy toga and pointy stick, that's far from the truth. Early man in the Americas was a very intelligent person. He knew that if he ran up to an elephant and just started jabbing it with his pointy stick, the outcome most likely wasn't going to be that good. Instead, he made use of the terrain, natural traps (as well as devised one) and other tools to help him with his quarry. One of the greatest tools at his disposal was the atlatl. The atlatl could be thrown much further, with great force, and with greater accuracy than any spear. It would allow them to kill at greater distances, without as much risk to life & limb. We know that in France, the atlatl was used as early as 17,000 years ago. In the Americas, we know for a fact that Paleo man used the atlatl also. Folsom were most likely designed for atlatl use, and perhaps some Clovis also. There have been been atlatl found in context with Mammoth remains. If the truth be known, the thrusting spear / lance probably played a much larger role in the late Mississippian and Historic time periods than any other. It was used effectively by plains horsemen (along with others) to help take down bison as well as in warefare. However, during the historic times the heads of these lances were commonly made of metal obtained by the Europeans.
What about those large Dovetail, Hardin, Daltons, etc? What are they then? Simply, most all of them are knives. How do we know that those big Doves and Daltons are knives? Beveling is an easy clue. Beveling is the bi-product of being resharpened several times. Beveling is another ingenious thing that early man done. They found that if they would resharpen just one face of each side, instead of all four, that it would maintain sharp edge, but they could get twice as many sharpenings out of that blade. Their blades would last twice as long, because it would only lose flint at 1/2 the rate. Not all aboriginals employed this beveling technique, but many did, especially during early archaic times. Does this mean all knives are beveled? No, but beveled artifacts are generally a sure-fire sign of them being used as knives. So, Bolen Bevels are all resharpened (see how screwed up typology can be?). Ok, Ok, I got off track - back to the subject.
"Ceremonial" was brought up, so I'll address my opinions on it. I hate the word, almost as bad as the phrase "transitional paleo". The reason is because it's usually used as a cop-out, in a generic sense. When somebody can't make heads or tails of a point, they will undoubtedly bring up the "C" word. If it has flaking left instead of right, or if one barb is longer than another, or if it's 1/2" longer than normal..yup, people bring out the word ceremonial. I'm not saying that some items aren't ceremonial or have a special purpose, of course they do. I just think it's used entirely too much to try to explain something that they can't make sense of. I'm a somewhat accomplished knapper, have been doing it around 30 years. However, when I go to make a Hardin sometimes the material (or me) will be having a bad day and it will wind up looking like something that makes me scratch my head. This doesn't make it ceremonial. I'm sure the natives went through the same thing on a regular basis. Unless it's found in certain context, there really isn't much telling if something was ceremonial or not. Many HAVE been found in ceremonial context though. They have been found in burials covered with red ochre, or buried in doorways, or in other situations that lend creedence to them having been for that purpose.
Here's something yall may find interesting. The "Sweetwater Biface". Most of us are familiar with this large blade, considered to be one of the thinnest flint artifacts ever found. It's a monster, and the thinness will blow your mind. Gregory Perino and others have stated that it had to be ceremonial and was never used. To tell the truth, I always thought that also. Anyways, we have the Sweetwater over where I work, and I put it under a microscope last year to examine it. When I examined the ends of it, I noticed that it has use wear on the ends. It has been utilized, not just a little..but quite a bit. It's still possible that it could have served a special ceremonial function, but now there is the distinct possibility also that it was a utilitarian knife that just hadn't been resharpened yet.
Crap, had more to type, but have to go for now.
RobKruzan
Full Member
That sound about right Matt, I agree with about everything you said nobody would stand under a bison and try poking at it and expect to not be killed or injured but I believe that they would do a drive by on horse and wedge one or two in the chest aswell as run them in a trap,also I agree they alot of these blades are knives I could go on and on but who has time/.)
allen
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Wow, I really learned something today and
I appreciate the lesson on arrowheads, points
spears, atlatl and everything else stated.....
Allen
I appreciate the lesson on arrowheads, points
spears, atlatl and everything else stated.....
Allen
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Please look up Duck River cache. I think you may find some to be ceremonial in my humble opnion. Of course Mclung musuem has them nowRobKruzan said:
http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2008februaryduckrivercachepage1.htm
creek astronaut
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Hey Matt,couldnt have said it better myself.hope you are doing good.
Neanderthal
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Doing a whole lot better greg, thanks. They still haven't figured out a whole lot though. I swear, doctors are no better than lawyers..uggh!
central MO rock stars
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thats a nice one
RGINN
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Cool, the experts responded. By 'spear' I mean something thrown like a javelin. As to ceremonial, my definition of that is similar to my wife's earrings. They look good, they took a mastercraftsman to make, but they serve no utilitarian purpose. They serve to show I am a good provider, they convey a certain status that some folks don't have, and they make her ear lobes hang lower. A 15 inch blade unused is not something the common man would carry. He would have to continually be reworking it or resharpening it. The lance, which became more popular after the horse and the availibily of iron, was not thrown like a spear. Buffalo horses were trained to charge the buffalo (ok, bison) on one side for the bow user and the other for the lancer. For the lancer, they were trained to 'set down' and stop, so the lance would come out. The buffalo was running, so if you did get a good lung shot with an arrow, he wouldn't last long. Some of these bows, particularly the bois de arc variety, were strong enough to put an arrow clear through a buffalo (bison). Neanderthal, you have certain items today in Oklahoma which could be called strictly ceremonial. Certain people have particular religious items which contain flaked artifacts that are renewed from time to time and are used strictly for religious purposes. They are very sacred and personal, and I respect that. If y'all can find some elders that will talk to you, they have a tremendous amount of information. All you guys are great, and I appreciate your input.
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Great find and an informative response from neanderthal. Thanks guys 
