sunken steam locomotive

[thepoolguy]

many old timers in my area often tell me i have a sunken steam locomotive under my driveway, which is an old abandoned railroad grade. they claim the whole grade gave way and sunk into what is a spagnum peat bog. i need info on how to go about either verifying that indeed one sunk there via old newpapers, or is there a way to detect its presence with some sort of deep detection unit, which sounds like alot less work than sorting through piles of old newpapers as the bog is only about 3/8 of a mile long. any help would be greatly appreciatied as this is one of those things "i just gotta know" thanx in advance dave

 

[thepoolguy]

hmmm did i post this in the wrong place? or is there no tips on how to go about reasearching the validity of this? any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks dave

 

[jeff of pa]

We'll see if it gets more Info here.

In my opinion Research is going to be Needed.

Historical Society, Library, Microfilm.

Is the Railroad Grade & Pete bog Sinking a Known Fact already ?
Or is that just Speculation Also.

IF THat is a Fact then look into the Possability of the Locomotive.

 

[thompy]

there is a newer train that sunk in a bog up this way also

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Set the controls for "All Metal". I would think a locomotive ought to show up at 15 feet!

My first thought would be "how did the stabilize the soil for my house & drive?" If they brought in yards and yards of topsoil and packed it down you may have a LOT of digging ahead.

What railroad company?

Do they have an archive?

 

[EDDE]

or maybe your neighbors just want to see you dig up the driveway

 

[jeff of pa]

I should have added on detecting it.

Even IF Your detector would reach 15' in All metal

it would most likely be Useless.

First a detector has to go over the Object to detect it.
it has to have Clear Ground then the object then clear Ground to Detect Properly.


Best you could find is an area that seems to have a large area of High Mineralization
which may or may not be due to a Tain or Iron ore.

Something that large would have to be 100 feet below to get the whole thing under the coil in one swing.
and no metal detector will detect 100 feet

An Expert with a 2 box
may be able to Trace it if 15' deep & They were able to detect it from its Edges.
Not from its Center.


But it would still be a Guess till it's dug.

The alternatives would be Ground Penetrating Radar, in
the hands of a Pro, Or
enough Research to prove where it is so you can just Dig.

Of course A Smoke Stack would most likely Sound off if only 5' below
if it looks something like this

 

[WV Hillbilly]

As as already been suggested , I believe I would start with newspaper archives or railroad archives . If there was a newspaper in the area at the time , I would think there would have been an article about a train sinking .

 

[jeff of pa]

IF you Find reason to search, You may also Try to find Track
and Follow it as the Engine would have taken the rail down with it,
And the Ends may still be Visible or close to the Surfuace

:P

 

[rmptr]

Since it could be very valuable, it's certainly worth doing research!

Among other sources of info, ask at closest libraries for assistance of their research librarian to verify rails where actually there, then proceed further...

City, county, or state historical museum's research people would help...

Model train guys are frequently history buffs.
Ask at hobby stores to get in contact with them... perhaps model train club?

and, there are REAL TRAIN buffs, also.

Search for someone with a proton magnetometer, which looks for deep anomalies in the ground.
You may be able to find someone who would assist in your search, gratis...

Ground imaging radar is getting more advertising here and there... Someone has bought them
It could help?

PI detectors with really large coils, like they use for meteorites might also help.
Attempt to contact those people...

Somewhere amongst all the above, I would definitely ascertain WHO has ownership rights to the locomotive suspected on YOUR property !!! Possibility exists it may be considered a historic relic, and property of the state.

There's folks out there who have excavated once sunken riverboats, now under dry farmland, and created a museum from what they've found... Contact them for advice.

Best of luck to you!
rmptr

 

[EdleBrock]

If you're convinced something is down there, grid out your yard and probe it...a water probe might do the trick...probably need a longer one than this:

http://www.tandttools.com/Water Probe.htm

 

[mikeofaustin]

I'm thinking ground penitration radar will tell you.. even draw you a picture of the thing. But be prepared for heavy costs... even for rental of equip. and engineer to run it. However, if you have a local college nearby, you might find someone in the history dept, or even the geological dept. that may want to 'talk a look' just for fun, if he's that interested in, that is...

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Now there's an idea. If you take that much iron and bury it not too deep even a Silva hiking compass should register magnetic deviation if you pass it over the spot. Walk a grid over & around your driveway with a compass held low.

 

[bill gent]

seems unlikely that there is one there me thinks some locals are pullin your chain I agree about the home on a bog the city would never allow it and if they did it would not be very cost effective for the developer unless he sunk timbers in to the bedrock

 

[rmptr]

Obviously I think the whole thing would be great fun!

...and I tend to go off half-cocked and dive right into things...
I'd get into lotsa trouble if I owned a cat, or even a backhoe!

So here I am, chasing my tail, and don't even have a clue WHERE the Poolguy actually is!

I've seen plenty of Brady's CW pics showing locomotives over on their side,
AND logging engines in the same embarrassing position.

Need more info!

As usual, Charlie is probably right... Always choose the easiest path!
Something THAT big would most likely bugger a compass and give an initial indication.
Next step could probably be a homemade water probe. If it goes thunk...

I'd much rather be a finder, but huntin' is fun, too!
rmptr

 

[corklabus]

Interesting subject....... I've heard of trains being toppled into rivers by accidents and floods and even buried by rock&landslides, but just to have one sink completely while still on track seems to be quite a difficult way to go down. Even if it went down enough to stop it from moving, one would think the owning company would make some sort of recovery or salvage effort before the incident got too far out of hand........Unless maybe it was so old and worn that salvage wasn't worth the effort. Of course I also don't have any idea of how quick a bog sink might be able to occur given tremendous weight.
This also makes me wonder what other liquid effects it would take for something like this to occur. Heavy rains, floods, etc; during the time in question. If the train was orignally routed over the bog, it must have beenpretty stabil during construction and "somebody" must have been aware of it being a boggy type area. There HAS to be other contributing factors that are traceable if it really did happen.
I'd try to detect the ends of the old rails before I wasted my time and money on anything else. Also, It wasn't mentioned if the train tipped over, but was assumed to have remained up-right. I'd bet it tipped and if you locate rails, one will be much deeper than the other one.

 

[jeff of pa]

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,101320.0.html

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey All,
I don't really have a " good " answer but I have a pix of someone trying to find a ship out in the desert and here's how he did it....

PLL

 

[thepoolguy]

wow thanks for all the info everyone! i like the idea of a compass ...as far as the water probe goes , i have thought about that but the actual grade is made of clay so going will be tougher than in the bog. we did push a 20 piece of 1/2 rerod into the bog by hand and never felt bottem so depth may well be an issue. lol and the house is not built on a bog it is on a clay knob about 40 above the level of the bog. i have been told that the way the rr co constructed these grades in swampy areas was to set explosive charges on the bog and then build the grade out of clay completly on top of the bog. once all the dirt was in place and high enough to be equel to the depth of the bog .....kaboom.....and the whole thing would sink untill it hit bottem making for a stable,weight supporting road. this being said the area im kinda thinking it may be at is where they would take on water out of a underground systern type thing that is still there. it is located near the edge of the bog where the fill that they sunk to make the grade out of would have landed on an angled bottem (think of the bog as bowl shaped) making for the possibility of a slide towards the center. the story i have heard is that it sunk while filling with water....ok so heres my theory. the engine may have been running but the drive not engaged making for a timed chug ..chug ...chug which could possably destablize things the same way a dog trotting across a suspension bridge can get the whole thing bouncing.....thats why they do not allow troops to "march" across a bridge. as far as it being "folklore" ....well who knows? but ive heard this from soooo many people that it seems as though something must have sunk there. also this type of accident was not unheard of in the early days of railroading. i have seen an artical about a train and 14 cars that sunk into the sceeny national wildlife refuge....which is basically a mammoth swamp in the u.p of michigan. the rr company made no attemt to recover anything as in those days there was no way to stablize the surrounding area to support the equipment needed to retrive it.....so it was filled over and the grade repaired. as far as ownership goes...the grade was abandoned by the rr co in the thirties and clear deed given to the owners of the land through which it traversed,so i think its "owner/finders" keepers. but...before i become know as the crazy guy digging holes in his driveway i would like to find some shred of documentation. do i just go to the library and start looking through a bazillion pages of newspapers? the time frame of the sinking may be a 30 year window....yikes...thats alot of newspapers. ive looked into some historians of the rr but i am hesitant to raise flags of protest to an indivdual retriving it rather than some thieving historical society looking to rob me of this very rare adventure. (thats what its all about isnt it?) hmmm wouldnt be all bad if it turned out to be worth a couple mill either lol. well i anxiously await replys of advice!!! btw...this site ROCKS...im 100% bitten by the bug...and not just sunken trains as i know of lots of potential sites ie old one room schools...maple shantys....the rr depot...all of which are now ground level and im sure still virgin to being detected. thanks to all for the replys dave

 

[rmptr]

Hi Dave,

Glad you're back!
(Sometimes we get an interesting post, such as yours, everyone offers help, then they never show again!)

All of us are happy to help, as we may...

Newspaper... Yep, tons of 'em to look through... too hard!

Best to make a spirited, upbeat query and see if you can enlist a research librarian to get you headed in the right direction and possibly narrow things down for you.

Ask for help!
...at the historical society, railroad museum, chamber of commerce, and anywhere you can think of.

If you would be more specific, many folks here enjoy doing research online...
rmptr