THE ATP CANT SEPERATE BETWEEN COINS AND SILVER/CLAD

[ringking76]

THE ATP CAN'T SEPERATE BETWEEN COINS AND SILVER/CLAD

So I posted on TN asking if a certain machine has good separation between the coins penny,dime,qrtr etc.and if it could differentiate between silver and clad.I also said I don't dig zincs or brownies only wheats,dimes and on up.
A couple of ppl said that I couldn't seperate wheats from zincs/lincs and that I also couldn't differentiate from silver and clad.they only reason that a MD seperates from dime/qrtr is the size difference.
Is there any other seasoned ATP users on here that also can seperate the denominations between coins and also seperate silver from clad.
Granted some old brownies will read like a wheat/dime but id say 80%- 90% of the time I know if its a browny and won't dig it.
They proceeded to call me lazy because I wouldn't dig the zincs and lincs.

 

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[Diggin-N-Dumps]

Man, I can tell you one thing....Things are always reading weird in the ground due to Position of coin, minerals in the ground, if there is any trash in the area.

being lazy cause you dont dig Zincs?..LOL..I dont dig zincs either, 80% of the time they are toasted and worthless.

with that said.

Its all about WHERE you are at. Now if you are in an area that is 100+ years old, and you are pulling old coins failry shallow...Then YES, i would dig a few of those signals to see what they are.

If you are in a city park that isnt that old, or super trashy...I wouldnt touch them.

From my expericance.

Wheats can read all sorts of numbers...sometimes i get them reading 78-79..sometimes i get them reading like freakin quarters, but bouncy

Yesterday I dug a very shallow Indian had that was reading 72-73, which in my area , Below the zinc penny, even out of the ground it ready funny
The numbers you always hear about or se people posting, are typically when a coin is perfeclty flat, but even then sometimes its just "off"

I dont get the science behind it, i just know after digging some odd numbers, i sorta got a feel for what might be in the ground.

A few weeks ago, i got an iffy 79-80 signal in an old road tearout....well i assumed it was a Wheatie, and almost didnt dig it because it was compacted down from the 100 year old bricks they took up.

Well I dug it, and out popped a worn ass Barber dime.

I dont know how long you have used the Pro, but im working on about 3 years now with it...and I still learn shii about it everytime i go out.

if you ever have any questions, feel free to shoot me a PM...Not trying to act like an expert, but i feel i do pretty well with the ATP

and as for higher end machines...they do it too...My hunting buddy runs an etrac, and sometimes he will get a strong quarter signal, and out pops a wheatie....Whats funny, is now i pretty much know when i get a wheat cent that is deep, because it will run thru all the numbers from 80-88, but always stays consistant with a high tone

Hope that helps

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

Also, For Clad to Silver numbers...its sorta hard to judge that, some people say they ring higher...and sometimes they do

For me a Clad dime is 82-83....A silver rosie or Merc is usally 84-85..sometimes 86

But again...ALL my barber dimes were dead on 80 for some reason

Just got to know what sorta of area you are digging...if you are digging clad or modern coins 6" deep....Might need to check a new spot

 

[Fourman110]

I have a hard time telling clad dimes from pre-zinc copper lincolns. Around here in IA, the pennies go 80/81/82 and the dimes 81/82. I quit picking up zinc pennies for a long time until I got bored in an old park one day and pulled up a 1900 indian head penny. Now I collect zincolns every time I hit an older park or home (and happened across an 1886 indian penny because of it).

Every once in a while when I'm in a new park or school area (stuff made since the 70's), I'll set up where I mask out everything below 40, then knock out the 70 range looking for silver, gold, and quarters. So far, just quarters.

Silver so far has been easy for me (when I find it). So far anything above 84 has been either a quarter, dollar, half dollar, or silver (ie. nice keepers).

 

[ringking76]

Also, For Clad to Silver numbers...its sorta hard to judge that, some people say they ring higher...and sometimes they do

For me a Clad dime is 82-83....A silver rosie or Merc is usally 84-85..sometimes 86

But again...ALL my barber dimes were dead on 80 for some reason

Just got to know what sorta of area you are digging...if you are digging clad or modern coins 6" deep....Might need to check a new spot

I've been hunting in oak ridge tn "secret city" where they built little boy and fat man.everything has been shallow 6" or less with the exception of a big silver spill
2 wash 3 walking halves and a merc at 7" and 8" . my clad dimes hit at 82-83 silver at 84 it may jump around but base# is 84,clad quarter 86-87 silver 90 half 93,wheats hit almost like dimes but drop one # lower,zincs 75-76 and sounds choppy,nickels 50-51 pull tabs 53 and choppy small-med gold rings 48-49 with a nice smooth tone.I'm thinking about putting a video up on my YouTube channel,it may help some ATP users out.

 

[OWK]

Why is everyone so fixated on being able to distinguish the absolute pre-dig identity of coins that you'd want to dig anyway?

I don't get it.

 

[Keppy]

Well i want my detector to just sound off on gold but the thing sounds off on pull tabs and nickels .. what is the best detector for that ?

 

[ringking76]

Why is everyone so fixated on being able to distinguish the absolute pre-dig identity of coins that you'd want to dig anyway?

I don't get it.

I like to know what it is before I dig,I don't dig every signal.when I come into a new spot I like to clear out the dimes and quarters,clad and silver first then clean up the gold.what's your method for digging signals

 

[Keppy]

I like to know what it is before I dig,I don't dig every signal.when I come into a new spot I like to clear out the dimes and quarters,clad and silver first then clean up the gold.what's your method for digging signals

Every body would like to know what is there before they dig …But that is just not possible if it was we would not be digging tabs we would only dig Silver & Gold …We would never did junk..If a detector maker could make a detector that would let you know what was there before you dig they could not make them fast enough..

 

[OWK]

I like to know what it is before I dig,I don't dig every signal.when I come into a new spot I like to clear out the dimes and quarters,clad and silver first then clean up the gold.what's your method for digging signals

Your detector's VDI (identification) is the developer's best guess as to what a target is, based on the signal characteristics that are returned by the target. They are provided as essentially a guess. They are effected by many things, including:

Other metals proximal to the target.
Soil conditions.
Moisture conditions.
Orientation of the target to the coil.
Depth
Target Shape
Penetration of surface oxides into the soil.

It is an extremely complex set of conditions through which the developer must sift, and develop an algorithm to present a target ID. The developer knows full well that his presumptive identification of the target is not foolproof. It is well understood by all detector manufacturers (and I thought all experienced users) that the VDI indication was simply a guide, and not a guarantee.

I'm not an AT Pro user. But I've seen and handled one. I would suggest that it's VDI accuracy is no different that my Fisher F70 (or in fact ANY detector, no matter the cost). XP Deus and CTX 3030's have the same general liabilities in trying to identify a target as Garrett and Fisher do with their detectors. And in spite of the loyalties of the respective fan bases of each of these detectors, anything with a retail price over $500 has essentially the same statistical likelihood of giving a proper target ID.

If you insist on absolute 100% accurate target ID, I'd suggest hunting with Superman or some other superhero equipped with Xray vision.

Short of that, you'll just have to dig all the coins, and sort them out later like the rest of us.

 

[ringking76]

Every body would like to know what is there before they dig …But that is just not possible if it was we would not be digging tabs we would only dig Silver & Gold …We would never did junk..If a detector maker could make a detector that would let you know what was there before you dig they could not make them fast enough..

Ya your right there's no perfect MD out there but everyone wants the MD that gives them the best chance to find the good targets and disregard the trash.I hope that clarifies your confusion.

 

[ringking76]

Your detector's VDI (identification) is the developer's best guess as to what a target is, based on the signal characteristics that are returned by the target. They are provided as essentially a guess. They are effected by many things, including:

Other metals proximal to the target.
Soil conditions.
Moisture conditions.
Orientation of the target to the coil.
Depth
Target Shape
Penetration of surface oxides into the soil.

It is an extremely complex set of conditions through which the developer must sift, and develop an algorithm to present a target ID. The developer knows full well that his presumptive identification of the target is not foolproof. It is well understood by all detector manufacturers (and I though all experienced users) that the VDI indication was simply a guide, and not a guarantee.

I'm not an AT Pro user. But I've seen and handled one. I would suggest that it's VDI accuracy is no different that my Fisher F70 (or in fact ANY detector, no matter the cost). XP Deus and CTX 3030's have the same general liabilities in trying to identify a target as Garrett and Fisher do with their detectors. And in spite of the loyalties of the respective fan bases of each of these detectors, anything with a retail price over $500 has essentially the same statistical likelihood of giving a proper target ID.

If you insist on absolute 100% accurate target ID, I'd suggest hunting with Superman of some other superhero equipped with Xray vision.

Short of that, you'll just have to dig all the coins, and sort them out later like the rest of us.

I owned the CTX i promise you it does not have the coin separation silver/clad as the ATP.that's why i sold it

 

[OWK]

Sigh.

 

[HenryWaltonJonesJr]

If they invented a machine 100% accurate there wouldn't be any place to hunt anymore except private property. To this day the stories of people pulling old silver from parks hit hundreds of times keep pouring out even with the at pro. This is what keeps me going out!

In my experience cherry picking doesn't yield a lot of cherries. If you only dig anything that hits in a constant round signal 81+ you'll still find a fair share (or more) of twist off beer caps, but a lot of copper pennies, quarters, dimes and possibly silver. But you also won't ever know what you missed. Some might be alright with that!

 

[Kodiak43351]

Passing up the zincs can lead to missing a silver ring. I've done it twice this year. I was so tired of digging them I decided not to dig them and got the signal and walked away. It started eating at me that I passed up that signal and went back and dug up a small silver ring. About a month or so ago I got another zinc signal and out came another small silver ring. I dig them all now. It take me forever to hunt a site but I don't want to miss anything good. I love the guys who cherry pick for just silver because they sure leave a lot behind. Go ahead and leave those pull tab signals I'll dig them because I can't pass them up because of the chance they could be gold. In my opinion I can tell diff between a clad dime and silver dime in my soil because the silver makes a sweet high pitch sound and it's just a bit diff than the clad sound. Good luck.

 

[DiggerinVA]

I have several hundred hours on my ATP...i have dug hundreds of coins of all types with it, and i will tell you: Can you tell Silver from clad? MOST of the time, yes. Can you tell a pre '83 penny from a post '82 penny? Yes, most of the time. Can you tell a pre '83 memorial penny from a wheat penny? NO YOU CAN NOT! They are the same.... Also, skipping shallow zincolns you could miss a shallow Indian as they show up very close... And depth makes all of this alot tougher.

 

[Bart@Big Boys Hobbies]

They are provided as essentially a guess. They are effected by many things, including:

Other metals proximal to the target.
Soil conditions.
Moisture conditions.
Orientation of the target to the coil.
Depth
Target Shape
Penetration of surface oxides into the soil.

Great post! That said, a multifrequency detectors has a HUGE advantage at closer to correct ID at depth and in heavy trash. The Minelab CTX 3030 is a perfect example of that. Most single frequencies will "see" it as deep and a CTX but usually average it down to something you would not dig.

The guys that dig the deep ones are the ones that come away with some great finds! Of course there is exceptions to this as well, ha ha. Learning your detectors language is your best option!

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

Why is everyone so fixated on being able to distinguish the absolute pre-dig identity of coins that you'd want to dig anyway?

I don't get it.

Well, Because it tells you whats in that area....If I went off only digging hightones, I would have about a 50 gallon drum of Alum. Screw tops.

Whereas, if im in an area and get a certain number, I know what to expect...the less trash you dig, the more you can move on a real target...Now I only do this when im in trashy areas, others places i usally dig any good or close to good signals.

Also, I have dug 3 V-nicks , 4 Silver Nicks, and 20 buffalos just this year...BEACUSE I knew when i was digging them they were nickles.

Why wouldnt you want to know what you are digging..Im sure its fun for some to dig rotten zinc pennies..But I don't have the patience for it. Im looking for old coins.

And its also good for people who just start out to understand how the machine works. By reading the VDI, I can pretty much determine what im digging based on where im at.

I know all you Old schoolers hate new technoldgy, but i dont.

 

[DiggerinVA]

Well, Because it tells you whats in that area....If I went off only digging hightones, I would have about a 50 gallon drum of Alum. Screw tops.

Whereas, if im in an area and get a certain number, I know what to expect...the less trash you dig, the more you can move on a real target...Now I only do this when im in trashy areas, others places i usally dig any good or close to good signals.

Also, I have dug 3 V-nicks , 4 Silver Nicks, and 20 buffalos just this year...BEACUSE I knew when i was digging them they were nickles.

Why wouldnt you want to know what you are digging..Im sure its fun for some to dig rotten zinc pennies..But I don't have the patience for it. Im looking for old coins.

And its also good for people who just start out to understand how the machine works. By reading the VDI, I can pretty much determine what im digging based on where im at.

I know all you Old schoolers hate new technoldgy, but i dont.

I just hunted an old school the other week....not many signals....i finally hit a really shallow signal with the atp(like 2 inches) that i figured forsure was a crappy zinc penny.....popped it out, cleaned it up...1893 Indian. A while back i was hunting a field and i had a deep repeatable signal in the 40's....dug it...1909 V-nickel.

 

[OWK]

I just hunted an old school the other week....not many signals....i finally hit a really shallow signal with the atp(like 2 inches) that i figured forsure was a crappy zinc penny.....popped it out, cleaned it up...1893 Indian. A while back i was hunting a field and i had a deep repeatable signal in the 40's....dug it...1909 V-nickel.

I am slowly advancing in the process of convincing myself to dig anything above iron, provided it doesn't bounce more than 2 or 3 units on the VDI.

I have learned that can slaw, flat cans, beavertails, and smashed aluminum screwcaps all bounce quite a bit.

But if it's just the ring of a pulltab (modern or old) it's pretty consistent. It seems like shape has as much to do with signal characteristics as material does. Round is consistent.

If I dig only consistent (no more than 2 or 3 units of VDI bounce) targets, I can save the trouble of digging a lot of junk, and still get the majority of nickles and jewelry.