The Copiale Cipher

Old Bookaroo · Oct 26, 2011

As some of you know, I'm one of the world's smallest fans of the Beale Code. I simply do not believe the story.

However, for those who do, or are just interested in ciphers and codes (whether associated with treasure or not, although it's tough to argue that treasure only adds to the mix!), here is a fascinating story: The Copiale Cipher.

This was new to me!

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...rs-crack-secret-society-cipher-142752408.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111025102320.htm

http://aclweb.org/anthology-new/W/W11/W11-1202.pdf

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

bigscoop · Oct 27, 2011

Bookaroo,
I understand your not believing in the Beale story, there's a lot of evidence pointing to it just being a simple fictional story. Also, (per the Copiale example) in light of today's computer program capabilities, it certainly brings into question if there's any real message at all in the remaining two Beale ciphers. It seems all that ever comes of these Beale clear text "solutions" is gibberish, or at best, a hodge-podge language arrangement. Personally, and in respect of these so called solutions, it's just hard for me to believe that the person who penned the fluid message in C2 went suddenly stupid or illiterate when he coded/wrote C1 & C3. As short as they are it seems these advanced computer programs would have cracked them by now with so many trying? :dontknow:

But,....like so many others, I keep looking for conclusive proof anyway. :laughing7:

allenroyboy · Oct 28, 2011

The ciphers like these would be simple to crack if they used just a single word for, say, 'e'. that way all you would need to do is find the number most used and assign it to 'e'. But they didn't do that. In the beale cipher #2 "e" is used from 14 different words in the Dec. of Ind. 3 of those words are used 14 times each. 2 of them are used 13 times, another 2 are used 6 times, 2 others 4 times, three are used twice, and 2 of them are used only once. (if that sounded confusing, you are getting the idea.....)

To make things even more complicated ciphers 1 and 3 have a greater number of words used from the original document than in cipher 2. #2 uses 182 words from the document for 24 letters of the alphabet (Q and Z are not used). But cipher 1 uses 299 words for the 24 letters and cipher 3 uses 264.

It is possible to insert words from the dictionary that will solve the cipher several times over, but which will make no sense at all. A human is still needed to see what makes sense and what does not.

I've read a lot of speculation about what is supposed to be in the ciphers and what cannot be in the ciphers. And that's all it is, speculation. it doesn't mean much. This is so complex, nobody can know until or unless someone finds a solution. I find it intellectually stimulating.

rockhound · Oct 29, 2011

In the 70's or 80's, a top government crytoanalyst worked on the Beale code, on his own time, and finally broke several words out of the code. Although they made no sense together, he decided that some parts of the code used one key, and possibly another part of the code used another. The words he broke out of the code were, goat and quetzal. He hired a local guide who knew the region well to take him into the peaks of Otter and look around. He found a rock formation that looked exactly like a goat. He almost passed out. He passed away before breaking the codes. He possibly passed down his papers to his family. No one knows where they might have ended up. Good Luck. rockhound

Rebel - KGC · Oct 29, 2011

MY R & I indicate the "BT" is buried under the LION'S HEAD; ANOTHER TH'er heard SHEEP'S HEAD. It is in "Apple Valley", and you can see it from the Blue Ridge Parkway... terrain is VERY "rough". "Q" is sun god of Aztec ppl; so PROBABLY means when sun shines on the "monument", whether Lion, Sheep, or Goat... LOOK!