The Diamonds?

bigscoop · Oct 8, 2012

The real "Patriot Armies" didn't even know they were part of a Patriot Army. The phrase was originally used by government officials to describe those forces that could be covertly created against the oppositing faction by means of instilling resistance and revolt within the populous. Madison used this tactic several times, as did Monroe. It allowed for unofficial campaigns against the opposition without any obvious or credible government involvement. It was also used to get around the challenges often confronted by the congress and the senate. Beware what you read in books, instead, locate and read the actual documents pertaining to such things. :icon_thumright:

By the way, this tactic was also used in South America, Mexico, and a host of other countries. Today we think of the CIA whenever these situations arise. It's a means of waging war without actually waging an official war.

lastleg · Oct 8, 2012

Franklin do you have a link for Dr Robertson's Journals?

BTW, It would be selfish and impertinent to take a whole day. I will only take the hours of 11:30 - 12:00 PM.

bigscoop · Oct 8, 2012

franklin said:
What I write does not come from history books. My words come straight from the journals of Dr. James Robertson

I understand that. Was just pointing out how these Patriot Armies actually come about. Once they are formed the term "Patriot" usually stayed with them, or was attached to them, for obvious reasons. It's all pretty fascinating stuff. But the corruption and self-serving means that eventually existed within all of it is what's really interesting. :icon_thumright:

Rebel - KGC · Oct 8, 2012

I remember the babbling Mexican story... was he babbling in Spanish? DUNNO... :icon_scratch:

MAYBE, he was just in the HOLY SPIRIT, and speaking in tongues. If he WAS from Kentucky... would it be in "English"? Gonna have to re-read that section... :key:

lastleg · Oct 8, 2012

Well Reb since he was held captive in Santa Fe he had to learn the lingo. I don't think the toungue speakers were around
Kentucky back in the late 1700's. He was the first Anglo to reach what is now Colorado. It's in all the history books so I believe
I'm on firm ground making that statement.

Kentucky Kache · Oct 8, 2012

Are we talking BEARDSTOWN, or BARDSTOWN?

bigscoop · Oct 8, 2012

franklin said:
James Pursley was in Sante Fe under house arrest from 1805 until the Spanish were defeated in 1822. He went from there to St. Louis and wrote and article in the newspapers about Indians.

The Spanish were defeated in 1822? By who? Please do tell. I know there was the Adam's Onis Treaty in 1821 but I have never run across any mention of military conflict or war that ended in 1822.

lastleg · Oct 8, 2012

Bardstown, Bullitt County. One reason for James going to St Louis was because his folks were there. Briefly the Purcells,
Sullivans, Lards, Youngers, James, were kin. Thomas Purcell served in the Revolutionary War and moved his family to
Jefferson Co, KY by 1783. Records say Pursell, Pursel, Persel, Pursly, all the same family.

The St Louis connection came from Catherine Sullivan Purcell (Caty Solivan Pourcelle Lard to the French and Spanish officials).
Following the Revolution Spanish officials encouraged people of the new country to settle in Upper Louisiana by tendering
large grants of land. Ezekial or Hezekiah as he was called and his wife Catherine Lard, daughter of Thomas, sister of James,
obtained a concession for 1000 arpents (850.70 acres) near the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi rivers. This was in the
St Louis district San Andre. Caty's father came to St Louis in 1806 to spend his remaining years.

After the death of Ezekiel (1799) Caty married another American settler of some means, Morris James. Caty James last appears
in the probate records of M. James 8-11-1834.

Hopefully this will fill in some of the gaps of Franklin's records.

Kentucky Kache · Oct 8, 2012

lastleg said:
Bardstown, Bullitt County. One reason for James going to St Louis was because his folks were there. Briefly the Purcells,
Sullivans, Lards, Youngers, James, were kin. Thomas Purcell served in the Revolutionary War and moved his family to
Jefferson Co, KY by 1783. Records say Pursell, Pursel, Persel, Pursly, all the same family.

The St Louis connection came from Catherine Sullivan Purcell (Caty Solivan Pourcelle Lard to the French and Spanish officials).
Following the Revolution Spanish officials encouraged people of the new country to settle in Upper Louisiana by tendering
large grants of land. Ezekial or Hezekiah as he was called and his wife Catherine Lard, daughter of Thomas, sister of James,
obtained a concession for 1000 arpents (850.70 acres) near the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi rivers. This was in the
St Louis district San Andre. Caty's father came to St Louis in 1806 to spend his remaining years.

After the death of Ezekiel (1799) Caty married another American settler of some means, Morris James. Caty James last appears
in the probate records of M. James 8-11-1834.

Hopefully this will fill in some of the gaps of Franklin's records.

I'm not all that for from Bardstown. I have a pretty good treasure lead near there.

lastleg · Oct 9, 2012

KK, give us the ingrediants and lets see if we can bake a cake.

bigscoop · Oct 9, 2012

Franklin........
A) show me a single document that proves the Thomas "Jefferson" Beale ever existed. Just one.

Kentucky Kache · Oct 9, 2012

lastleg said:
KK, give us the ingrediants and lets see if we can bake a cake.

You're invited to come help me anytime. Whether or not there's any treasure left, I've been able to confirm the story behind this lead.

bigscoop · Oct 9, 2012

franklin said:
I have already revealed several documents and newspapers if you had read my CD Book, "Lost Diary of Thomas Jefferson Beale". The information is out there. Check the Rosters of the American Revolutionary War, their pension plans and their children you will find it.

Done! And it's been done by many. No Thomas "Jefferson" Beale. In fact, I don't know a single researcher who has ever found any evidence of a Thomas "Jefferson" Beale having ever existed. Can you, perhaps, reference a real document? You do realize that "Jefferson" was never part of the name until the Hart brothers tagged it as being such, yes? And even then they couldn't, didn't, provide proof to that fact. So where is this all elusive document establishing Thomas "Jefferson" Beale? If it's out there thousands upon thousands of both private and professional researchers have failed to find it.

Rebel - KGC · Oct 10, 2012

bigscoop said:
Done! And it's been done by many. No Thomas "Jefferson" Beale. In fact, I don't know a single researcher who has ever found any evidence of a Thomas "Jefferson" Beale having ever existed. Can you, perhaps, reference a real document? You do realize that "Jefferson" was never part of the name until the Hart brothers tagged it as being such, yes? And even then they couldn't, didn't, provide proof to that fact. So where is this all elusive document establishing Thomas "Jefferson" Beale? If it's out there thousands upon thousands of both private and professional researchers have failed to find it.

franklin is correct; I have a new modem now, and will re-read his CD book, which I highly recommend. The Hart Bros had access to "secret" info that indicated "Jefferson" was the middle name; the 2nd Beale Cipher "Code" is "clue". It was/is a REBEL thing... gotta read the HART PAPERS to understand; Sgt. Hazlewood asked Clayton Hart to make copies of "papers with figures"... SEVERAL copies. WHO were they going to? The Hart Bros later "interviewed" J B Ward (and son) re. the BEALE PAPER(S); the HART PAPERS does NOT have the "Beale Story". Hmmm... :icon_scratch:

bigscoop · Oct 10, 2012

Rebel - KGC said:
franklin is correct; I have a new modem now, and will re-read his CD book, which I highly recommend. The Hart Bros had access to "secret" info that indicated "Jefferson" was the middle name; the 2nd Beale Cipher "Code" is "clue". It was/si a REBEL thing... gotta read the HART PAPERS to understand; Sgt. Hazlewood asked Clayton Hart to make copies of "papers with figures"... SEVERAL copies. WHO were they going to? The Hart Bros later "interviewed" J B Ward (and son) re the BEALE PAPER(S); the HART PAPERS does NOT have the "Beale Story". Hmmm...

It's all "he-said-she-said super secret local foo-doo & hoo-doo" without a single documented fact to back any of it up. PV recognized this which is why he never laid public claim of proof to any of it. "Beale, Beal, Beall" at one point or the other it had to be this one, or that one, or heck...possibly even all of them, and yet......not a single document containing even a smidgen of evidence that Thomas "Jefferson" Beale ever existed. "NOTHING!"

Rebel - KGC · Oct 10, 2012

bigscoop said:
It's all "he-said-she-said super secret local foo-doo & hoo-doo" without a single documented fact to back any of it up. PV recognized this which is why he never laid public claim of proof to any of it. "Beale, Beal, Beall" at one point or the other it had to be this one, or that one, or heck...possibly even all of them, and yet......not a single document containing even a smidgen of evidence that Thomas "Jefferson" Beale ever existed. "NOTHING!"

CORRECT! NOT to YOU! LOL!

bigscoop · Oct 10, 2012

Rebel - KGC said:
CORRECT! NOT to YOU! LOL!

Thank you! Finally!

Rebel - KGC · Oct 10, 2012

bigscoop said:
Thank you! Finally!

YOU! THAT is the KEY here... YOU are satisfied that there is NO "documentation". I have seen & heard OTHERWISE, which can not & will not be shared with YOU... do YOU know the "magic word" (password)? Didn't think so... LOL!

bigscoop · Oct 11, 2012

Rebel - KGC said:
YOU! THAT is the KEY here... YOU are satisfied that there is NO "documentation". I have seen & heard OTHERWISE, which can not & will not be shared with YOU... do YOU know the "magic word" (password)? Didn't think so... LOL!

lol......I'm sure you've "heard" otherwise & "read" otherwise. At least that much we agree on. :laughing7:

I just fail to understand why any serious researcher would believe in the existence of something that there's absolutely no proof of? It's one thing to keep looking for the proof, but to lay claim that it exist without even a hint of evidence or proof........ :dontknow:

.......that's the stuff that keeps legends alive and nine times out of ten it all goes back to a few locals who "created" a great deal of it. "You can't disprove what never existed and so the mystery continues to thrive on these embellishments." People who believe in these embellishments without ever bothering to seek the actual "facts" for themselves will go to their grave having wasted away their time on a fantasy and completely clueless of the truth. If you're going to believe in the existence of something at least believe in something you can prove existed. No Thomas "Jefferson" Beale, but there was a TJB. :wink: