The Dutchman Ore Test, TE Glover book The Golden Dream

[Matthew Roberts]

The Dutchman Ore Test, TE Glover Book, The Golden Dream.

The “Nugget of Truth” video thread has gone off topic and several excellent questions raised have gone unanswered in the process. Rather than sandwich these answers in between posts that have nothing to do with the topic I hope this thread will address some of those questions and stay focused.

The known Dutchman ore that was used as comparison for the 6 ores tested was the Matchbox and other gold ore from the same ore that became the Matchbox. All the known Dutchman ore, the matchbox, stick pin, cuff links, rings and small pieces of gold ore all match each other and came from the same source. That has been known and verified for many years even before the TE Glover testing.

Dr. Glover used SEM (Scanning Electron Microscopy) and EDS (Energy Dispersive Spectroscopy) to focus a beam of electrons onto each gold sample causing the sample to emit several types of signals and readings. The SEM/EDS sensors processed the signals into the 94 known elements that are relevant to geology, showing those elements present in each ore sample and its depth and mass.

The resulting readout showed every single element present in each ore sample and its percentage. The readout also scanned the type of quartz and host rock present in each sample and the types of rock and mineral present in the samples.

The resulting readouts when compared with the other ores showed which ores were similar and contained the same elements and minerals and which ones were dissimilar.

Here is a list of some of the elements that occurred in that testing. The list is not the result of any one single ore tested.

As Arsenic
Sb Antimony
Pb Lead
Bi Bismuth
Fe Iron
Te Tellurium
Cu Copper
Ag Silver
Au Gold
Hg Mercury

The test also recorded all the compounded elements such as FeS2 Pyrite as well as many others.

Once comparisons of all the elements in each sample were completed the results showed the Vulture Ore was totally dissimilar. The Black Queen, Bulldog and Mammoth Ores were also dissimilar. Only the Kochera Ore and Camp Ore were similar with the known Dutchman Ore, with the Camp Ore being the only ore that had the possibility of having originated with the same geologic event as Dutchman ore.

Below is a readout that shows how the SEM/EDS reads and records the different elements and their mass. This readout is posted here only to illustrate what Dr. Glover received and passed along to the owners of the various ore samples. This readout IS NOT from Dr. Glover’s test.

 

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[Racer53]

Thanks for sharing Mathew. I appreciate reading your posts on Tnet. I may be way off base, as I have no mining/mineral experience and I'm trying to pick up the correct knowledge and weed through the misinformation sometimes presented. With that said, according to this test could I reason that Kochera ore and the Pit Mine ore are one in the same? Kochera ore and Camp ore are related, but likely did not come from the same mine? Camp Ore is our best match so far to the Dutchman's? Which in turn means The Pit mine is not The Lost Dutchman Mine, but The LDM more than likely in the nearby vicinity? Or, (most likely) am I WAY out in left field with my reasoning? Thank you sir!

 

[Oroblanco]

The Dutchman Ore Test, TE Glover Book, The Golden Dream.

The “Nugget of Truth” video thread has gone off topic and several excellent questions raised have gone unanswered in the process. Rather than sandwich these answers in between posts that have nothing to do with the topic I hope this thread will address some of those questions and stay focused.

The known Dutchman ore that was used as comparison for the 6 ores tested was the Matchbox and other gold ore from the same ore that became the Matchbox. All the known Dutchman ore, the matchbox, stick pin, cuff links, rings and small pieces of gold ore all match each other and came from the same source. That has been known and verified for many years even before the TE Glover testing.

Dr. Glover used SEM (Scanning Electron Microscopy) and EDS (Energy Dispersive Spectroscopy) to focus a beam of electrons onto each gold sample causing the sample to emit several types of signals and readings. The SEM/EDS sensors processed the signals into the 94 known elements that are relevant to geology, showing those elements present in each ore sample and its depth and mass.

The resulting readout showed every single element present in each ore sample and its percentage. The readout also scanned the type of quartz and host rock present in each sample and the types of rock and mineral present in the samples.

The resulting readouts when compared with the other ores showed which ores were similar and contained the same elements and minerals and which ones were dissimilar.

Here is a list of some of the elements that occurred in that testing. The list is not the result of any one single ore tested.

As Arsenic
Sb Antimony
Pb Lead
Bi Bismuth
Fe Iron
Te Tellurium
Cu Copper
Ag Silver
Au Gold
Hg Mercury

The test also recorded all the compounded elements such as FeS2 Pyrite as well as many others.

Once comparisons of all the elements in each sample were completed the results showed the Vulture Ore was totally dissimilar. The Black Queen, Bulldog and Mammoth Ores were also dissimilar. Only the Kochera Ore and Camp Ore were similar with the known Dutchman Ore, with the Camp Ore being the only ore that had the possibility of having originated with the same geologic event as Dutchman ore.

Below is a readout that shows how the SEM/EDS reads and records the different elements and their mass. This readout is posted here only to illustrate what Dr. Glover received and passed along to the owners of the various ore samples. This readout IS NOT from Dr. Glover’s test.



View attachment 1534663

May we ask where this readout came from then? Thanks in advance,

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Oro,
It's just a sample not related to any mining. Only to show what a readout looks like.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Thanks for sharing Mathew. I appreciate reading your posts on Tnet. I may be way off base, as I have no mining/mineral experience and I'm trying to pick up the correct knowledge and weed through the misinformation sometimes presented. With that said, according to this test could I reason that Kochera ore and the Pit Mine ore are one in the same? Kochera ore and Camp ore are related, but likely did not come from the same mine? Camp Ore is our best match so far to the Dutchman's? Which in turn means The Pit mine is not The Lost Dutchman Mine, but The LDM more than likely in the nearby vicinity? Or, (most likely) am I WAY out in left field with my reasoning? Thank you sir!

Racer53,
You are on a good track. Pit ore was not tested only as Kochera ore. If ore from the pit mine is taken it could be matched to Kochera ore. Otherwise we just have Ron Feldmans word pit and Kochera are the same.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

The Dutchman Ore Test, TE Glover Book, The Golden Dream.

...................... SNIP ..........................

The known Dutchman ore that was used as comparison for the 6 ores tested was the Matchbox and other gold ore from the same ore that became the Matchbox. All the known Dutchman ore, the matchbox, stick pin, cuff links, rings and small pieces of gold ore all match each other and came from the same source. That has been known and verified for many years even before the TE Glover testing.

......................................... SNIP ............................................

Thanks, Matthew...that's the first time I have seen an affirmation that, specifically, the Matchbox, Jewelry, and surviving ore were subjected to the same testing and all "match" each other. While reading Dr. Glover's pt. 1, it sure reads like that was the case, but which items specifically were tested was a little unclear to me. Best, Jim

PS - I understand that a "match" is only highly suggestive, but not absolute proof...is there a "public" telling of where the camp ore came from? Thx, Jim

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Thanks, Matthew...that's the first time I have seen an affirmation that, specifically, the Matchbox, Jewelry, and surviving ore were subjected to the same testing and all "match" each other. While reading Dr. Glover's pt. 1, it sure reads like that was the case, but which items specifically were tested was a little unclear to me. Best, Jim

PS - I understand that a "match" is only highly suggestive, but not absolute proof...is there a "public" telling of where the camp ore came from? Thx, Jim

Jim,

I was not present in Reno at the testing of the ores but was told by the owner of the Matchbox that the Matchbox and a piece of ore that came from the same gold used to make the Matchbox was used.

All the other ores were tested for similar or dissimilar traits with the Matchbox and that one piece of Dutchman ore.

And of course, once testing was complete, ALL the ores could be compared to each other for similarities or discrepancies.

Your question:....is there a "public" telling of where the Camp Ore came from?

If you mean is it published somewhere in a book, magazine, article, video ........ ? The answer to the question is no.

Since no claim has ever been made concerning the Camp Ore nothing can be positively said about it other than someone's personal opinion.
Also, the issue of that ore and where it originated is still an ongoing investigation in the Superstitions. If at some time in the future something positive can be brought forward the entire story may be told.
Otherwise its just one of a hundred Lost Dutchman Mine stories.
I just came back from 9 days alone out in the mountains this past December trying to piece some ends together concerning this issue. The search goes on and I hope to make it back for one more try before the hot weather sets in.

Matthew

 

[cactusjumper]

Matthew,

Can you tell us the source for the Camp Ore?

Thank you,

Joe

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Matthew,

Can you tell us the source for the Camp Ore?

Thank you,

Joe

cactusjumper,

I could but would have to break a confidence with a dear friend I have known for a very long time, have been in the mountains with on many occasions and with whom I am still working.

As I explained to Jim in a previous post, everything is personal opinion until something is uncovered that might prove that ore. That is an ongoing endeavor that we are still working on in the mountains.

Matthew

 

[cactusjumper]

cactusjumper,

I could but would have to break a confidence with a dear friend I have known for a very long time, have been in the mountains with on many occasions and with whom I am still working.

As I explained to Jim in a previous post, everything is personal opinion until something is uncovered that might prove that ore. That is an ongoing endeavor that we are still working on in the mountains.

Matthew

Matthew,

Just to be clear, I wasn't interested in who has the ore now, believe I know, rather who the original source was.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Jim,

I was not present in Reno at the testing of the ores but was told by the owner of the Matchbox that the Matchbox and a piece of ore that came from the same gold used to make the Matchbox was used.

All the other ores were tested for similar or dissimilar traits with the Matchbox and that one piece of Dutchman ore.

And of course, once testing was complete, ALL the ores could be compared to each other for similarities or discrepancies.

Your question:....is there a "public" telling of where the Camp Ore came from?

If you mean is it published somewhere in a book, magazine, article, video ........ ? The answer to the question is no.

Since no claim has ever been made concerning the Camp Ore nothing can be positively said about it other than someone's personal opinion.
Also, the issue of that ore and where it originated is still an ongoing investigation in the Superstitions. If at some time in the future something positive can be brought forward the entire story may be told.
Otherwise its just one of a hundred Lost Dutchman Mine stories.
I just came back from 9 days alone out in the mountains this past December trying to piece some ends together concerning this issue. The search goes on and I hope to make it back for one more try before the hot weather sets in.

Matthew

Matthew,

Thanks for the response, I hope at some point the story of the camp ore can be told. Best of luck on your return trip to the mts before the hot weather kicks back in...seems like there's not much of a winter out there this year, tho. The only reason I ever go down to the valley anymore is to visit family and friends, other than that I tend to stay where the snow flies...a "reverse snowbird"...Best, Jim

 

[audigger53]

Question: When was a sample of the "Matchbox" taken to do testing? I think that would be something that would be hard to get permission, to damage it. IMO If the "Matchbox" was not used for the testing, then all is moot. Again IMO

 

[Terry Soloman]

ALL of the tested ore - including the matchbox, can (and has) be matched to ore samples from the Bradshaw Mountains. Now THERE is something to ponder!

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Question: When was a sample of the "Matchbox" taken to do testing? I think that would be something that would be hard to get permission, to damage it. IMO If the "Matchbox" was not used for the testing, then all is moot. Again IMO

Hi Au Digger,

In this particular test, I believe the composition of the match safe was tested using a scanning electron microscope with the permission of the owner, as it's a non-destructive test. It was all outlined in Dr. Glover's "The Golden Dream". Matthew also pointed out that other testing had been done prior to this, with the same results. Hope that helps, Jim

 

[cactusjumper]

Dr. Glover's approach to researching the history of the LDM and Jacob Waltz is, by far, (IMHO) one of the best efforts to date. No one else has ever done such tests on the local ore compared to what are thought to be authentic LDM Ore. He should be applauded for his efforts.

With all of the outright lies that have been floated surrounding the LDM and the Superstition Mountains, it's nice to have someone just telling us the facts as he knows them to be.

I will take Thomas' word any day of the week. Can't say that for all of the people involved in seeking the LDM, or those just trying to get a book put together. In Thomas' case, he is only as good as his sources.......when he depends on them outside his own research.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Cubfan64]

ALL of the tested ore - including the matchbox, can (and has) be matched to ore samples from the Bradshaw Mountains. Now THERE is something to ponder!

You know what the follow-up question is then right?

 

[wrmickel1]

You know what the follow-up question is then right?

Well it surely don't make any plausible sense to by gold from a retail store, when your The largest mining company in the area, why not use alittle of your owned mined stuff.

babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

Question: When was a sample of the "Matchbox" taken to do testing? I think that would be something that would be hard to get permission, to damage it. IMO If the "Matchbox" was not used for the testing, then all is moot. Again IMO

A very easy noninvasive electronic test would end it. 10 minutes tops.
But that will never happen, Bottom line The box was made 10 years before Waltz ever passed,


babymick1