The infrastructure of coin distribution

[namster]

I think many of us are confused as to how coins are distributed to banks. To the best of my determination, based on my conversations with managers and other hobbyists, I am convinced that coin pools stay within the same bank no matter the service. IE, If both Chase and BoA use Loomis to distribute coin, their coin pools do not cross between banks unless someone buys coin from BoA and deposits it in Chase. It has nothing to do with the delivery/packing company, and all to do with the coin that the bank has (owns) in the cash vault.

So, assuming BoA is serviced by Loomis, if Jane Doe deposits her grandfathers collection of 500 90% Kennedy halves into BoA, and it reaches the cash vault, the coins will ONLY end up in BoA boxes. Lets say Chase is also serviced by Loomis in that area, Chase boxes will not see any of those halves. They will all remain within the BoA coin pool.

Please contribute if you your experience is contrary.

 

[AGBlex]

i hear ya. i'll know my dumps are coming back when i stop getting canadian cents

 

[half dollar bill]

I believe what you are saying, since I dump at USbank coin machines. These are free to use, and there are many in our area. Were do the banks get their coins if they do not have coin machines, since I have had tellers tell me that brinks won't pick up halves until they have $1000 worth?

 

[SilverFace]

That seems logical & plausible to me.

 

[namster]

I believe what you are saying, since I dump at USbank coin machines. These are free to use, and there are many in our area. Were do the banks get their coins if they do not have coin machines, since I have had tellers tell me that brinks won't pick up halves until they have $1000 worth?

Precisely this, they wait and ship out when they have the coin. One large bank in my area said they will order halves for me, but "sometimes they run out and can not ship the quantity you want to order." This was told to me by the regional manager.

 

[half dollar bill]

I believe what you are saying, since I dump at USbank coin machines. These are free to use, and there are many in our area. Were do the banks get their coins if they do not have coin machines, since I have had tellers tell me that brinks won't pick up halves until they have $1000 worth?

Precisely this, they wait and ship out when they have the coin. One large bank in my area said they will order halves for me, but "sometimes they run out and can not ship the quantity you want to order." This was told to me by the regional manager.

I thought that if the bank ran out of coins, they could always order from the federal reserve.

 

[namster]

I thought that if the bank ran out of coins, they could always order from the federal reserve.

This I do not know. I think it depends on whether the bank is willing to do so. I thought of holding through this banks supply and insisting they source them from the fed. Not sure this would be profitable though, since I believe I would end up with a box of 2001s. Who knows.

 

[Bigheed]

I think many of us are confused as to how coins are distributed to banks. To the best of my determination, based on my conversations with managers and other hobbyists, I am convinced that coin pools stay within the same bank no matter the service. IE, If both Chase and BoA use Loomis to distribute coin, their coin pools do not cross between banks unless someone buys coin from BoA and deposits it in Chase. It has nothing to do with the delivery/packing company, and all to do with the coin that the bank has (owns) in the cash vault.

So, assuming BoA is serviced by Loomis, if Jane Doe deposits her grandfathers collection of 500 90% Kennedy halves into BoA, and it reaches the cash vault, the coins will ONLY end up in BoA boxes. Lets say Chase is also serviced by Loomis in that area, Chase boxes will not see any of those halves. They will all remain within the BoA coin pool.

Ya this has been discussed on tons of threads before. But ultimately if there are a bunch of hunters in town it all gets mixed up eventually as if it were just one pile because everyone has different supply / dumps within the district.

I've been saying the same thing for months. However, I think in smaller towns they might co-mingle if they use the same service for logistics purposes, but in any major metro city each bank has its own unique vault at the armored service processing centers. If they need they either buy it from the federal reserve bank or from another bank , but its not just one big pile that Brinks or Garda ships out from uniformly.

 

[madwest]

There are a number of ways it can go.

1) The big banks (national banks and large regional banks) mostly use Brinks, Loomis, Garda, etc (hereafter, B/L/G) as a vault service and armored car service. In this scenario, the cash/coin belongs to the bank at all times. B/L/G totes that cash/coin to/from the bank branches as directed. The fees to the bank depend on volume and frequency of servicing. B/L/G picks up loose coin that belongs to the bank, counts it, rolls it, stores it, and delivers it as directed. B/L/G is the vault and may have many banks' cash/coin on site, but does keep it entirely separate.

2) Some regional banks have their own central vault. In this scenario, B/L/G is just the armored car service and transports cash/coin to/from the branch locations from/to the bank's central vault. That central vault counts and rolls loose coin and stores it for their branches' use.

3) Home town banks and credit unions contract either with a large bank or with B/L/G to supply cash/rolled coin as needed just like a retail store would. They pay a fee per bag for B/L/G to take the loose coin - with no commitment to take any set amount of rolled coin from B/L/G. Likewise, they pay a fee per box for B/L/G to deliver rolled coin.

 

[ramjet2187]

As stated above, coin does not always remain owned by a bank when held by the carrier. I get halves in 1K coin loc bags, and several times the "shipping label" has been filled out (to include the shipping teller's name) from a bank in a nearby town. Apparently, Brinks (my pick-up bank's service) has simply picked up bagged coin from one bank, and dropped it at my bank. One of those bags produced my one and only 'Barber' half, a FAKE 1895 coin that just feels funny, and doesn't have that distinctive 'ring' when dropped. It's also heavily pitted, as it's an obvious 'cast' copy. Doesn't have "copy" on it anywhere, though.

 

[Piledriver]

I am more curious about where banks GET their coin when their supply is exhausted.

And I think most of them can get their supply of halves exhausted when a big roller has little competition and dumps elsewhere.

Keep on Rollin' !

 

[CubanHunter]

I am more curious about where banks GET their coin when their supply is exhausted.

And I think most of them can get their supply of halves exhausted when a big roller has little competition and dumps elsewhere.

Keep on Rollin' !

Probably they will order from the federal reserve or from others banks

 

[Captaindoodle]

Ya this has been discussed on tons of threads before. But ultimately if there are a bunch of hunters in town it all gets mixed up eventually as if it were just one pile because everyone has different supply / dumps within the district.

I've been saying the same thing for months. However, I think in smaller towns they might co-mingle if they use the same service for logistics purposes, but in any major metro city each bank has its own unique vault at the armored service processing centers. If they need they either buy it from the federal reserve bank or from another bank , but its not just one big pile that Brinks or Garda ships out from uniformly.
[/quote]

BH,

First of all, you are spot on with the logistics...each bank has it's own virtual vault within the courier's "real vault".

Second, I'm in a much smaller market than LA, but still one with an MSA > 1MM people...since i got over a roll of gold plated halves in a series of boxes a while back (and I only edge search), i decided to put them to good use as markers...I date marked one I put in a Brinks dump bank in a Coin-Loc bag on 12/9/11, and received it back in a sealed Loomis box from a separate bank this week! It's scary the velocity being created with the influx of new hunters...I'm in the midst of my worst month in 4 years. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted

HH, (to the last coin!),
CD

 

[47thelement]

There are a number of ways it can go.

1) The big banks (national banks and large regional banks) mostly use Brinks, Loomis, Garda, etc (hereafter, B/L/G) as a vault service and armored car service. In this scenario, the cash/coin belongs to the bank at all times. B/L/G totes that cash/coin to/from the bank branches as directed. The fees to the bank depend on volume and frequency of servicing. B/L/G picks up loose coin that belongs to the bank, counts it, rolls it, stores it, and delivers it as directed. B/L/G is the vault and may have many banks' cash/coin on site, but does keep it entirely separate.

2) Some regional banks have their own central vault. In this scenario, B/L/G is just the armored car service and transports cash/coin to/from the branch locations from/to the bank's central vault. That central vault counts and rolls loose coin and stores it for their branches' use.

3) Home town banks and credit unions contract either with a large bank or with B/L/G to supply cash/rolled coin as needed just like a retail store would. They pay a fee per bag for B/L/G to take the loose coin - with no commitment to take any set amount of rolled coin from B/L/G. Likewise, they pay a fee per box for B/L/G to deliver rolled coin.

To my knowledge, all credit unions are created the same and may have different procedures for divesting themselves of coins. From what I was told, there are different rules for credit unions depending if they use one specific word in their name.

 

[half dollar bill]

2 years ago I was getting my halves from national city bank.[brinks] I returned my coins at a USbank.[brinks] I edge marked some of the rolls to see if I got the coins back. It took about 5 weeks, but I did start to see some of the same coins, so the coins were being mixed at that time.

 

[namster]

Thanks everyone for the input. Very interesting.

 

[$ilver$urfer]

I always thought that all coins that were shipped out from banks to distribution centers went into the same coin bin and then as banks ordered boxes of coin they would turn on the machines, roll them up and ship them back out. I never really questioned this logic too much until the last few months. The reason being is I would get one awesome box from one supply bank and then get 4-6 really crappy boxes from another supply bank on the same day even though the boxes, roll wrappers and box codes were all the same!!!

As the original poster said, I am starting to believe more and more that the banks have their own separate coin bins. My awesome box with 20 keepers last week is from a bank that will only order me 1 box a week no matter how much I ask for more. They say they can't get any more but my feeling is they don't feel like lifting all those heavy boxes (all older women tellers). I have never complained too much because the boxes I do get from them are always much better than average and they always give me all of their dimes too. At any rate, last week to a branch of this bank in the next town (about 15 miles away) and asked if they will order me 4 boxes on a weekly basis and they said no problem. I will let you all know later this week if this theory is sound!

HH,

$ilver$urfer

 

[$ilver$urfer]

I always thought that all coins that were shipped out from banks to distribution centers went into the same coin bin and then as banks ordered boxes of coin they would turn on the machines, roll them up and ship them back out. I never really questioned this logic too much until the last few months. The reason being is I would get one awesome box from one supply bank and then get 4-6 really crappy boxes from another supply bank on the same day even though the boxes, roll wrappers and box codes were all the same!!!

As the original poster said, I am starting to believe more and more that the banks have their own separate coin bins. My awesome box with 20 keepers last week is from a bank that will only order me 1 box a week no matter how much I ask for more. They say they can't get any more but my feeling is they don't feel like lifting all those heavy boxes (all older women tellers). I have never complained too much because the boxes I do get from them are always much better than average and they always give me all of their dimes too. At any rate, last week to a branch of this bank in the next town (about 15 miles away) and asked if they will order me 4 boxes on a weekly basis and they said no problem. I will let you all know later this week if this theory is sound!

HH,

$ilver$urfer

THE THEORY IS SOUND!!! WELL, AT LEAST FOR THIS WEEK ANYWAYS!!! I picked up 4 boxes from another branch of the consistently good bank in addition to the 1 box I get weekly from the local branch and this is what I found:

Long Standing Order:
Box #1: [12] 40%ers

New Order Bank:
Box #2: [7] 40%ers
Box #3: [2] '64s
Box #4: [2] '64s & [1] 40%er
Box #5: [1] 40%er

This is the consistency I like -- an average of 5 silvers per box. I think I will shift some of my orders to this bank, they seem, at least for now, to be much better than average!

HH,

$ilver$urfer

 

[TimZim]

? I dump about 28,000 half dollars a week on td bank and they will not order them!!!! So what do they do with them? Tim Zim

 

[FreedomUIC]

Everyone needs to go to the Federal Reserves web site and read how currency flows through the us. The U.S. is made up into regions, the regions are basically made up into zones (for lack of a better word) and the zones are divided into specific areas covering square miles. The idea is to buy in one area and dump in the other, that way your coins will not come back to you
unless you have CRH'r do the same thing in his specific area. The line I used was only 5 miles from my home, made dumping very very easy. There are only two "Coin Vaults" in my area where I hunt, Tampa and Fort Myers. I figured out where the line was and buy from one "Coin Vault" and dump into the other.

Just some advice from a CRH'r who has been doing this for more than a couple of months.