The Quest for Maine Gold

[OreCart]

My Father-in-law has not had the opportunity to pan out the ore sample I dropped off last week, but promised me he would get to it this week for sure.

My criteria for confirming gold is that two people have to identify it as such. For instance, I have panned a few streams out and found "gold", but I really do not count it as it has not had a second party...a second person think it is gold too. I just do not have enough confidence in myself to say if it has it or not.

 

[triple d]

You could post a picture here. Most people on here have a eye for gold. If its in ore may be harder to tell. But once you find it. You will know its gold. The smaller gold you need a loupe to see well. In ore if its mica or pyrite. It should flake off with a knife.

 

[OreCart]

The inclusions we found, we tested with a needle, pressing into it, and then seeing if the needle made an indentation with a loupe. The "gold" I am laying claim to being gold passed that test. I am not sure what else would be gold colored, between the country rock and quartz, and soft in nature. About the only thing my father in law said, was the gold he saw in California was shiny right out of the rock, but mine looks a bit more brassy colored...dull gold in color. That is what makes me wonder if the gold is true gold.

 

[OreCart]

My Father-In-Law panned out that crushed up ore and said he did not see even a flake in it.

I am not sure whether or not to be disappointed. It was pulverized lode gold, and he did not use a loupe, so it would not surprise me if there was gold in it and he did not see it, but then again there just might not be gold in that rock either. I just got to get some more rock pulverized and send it in for testing.

 

[OreCart]

It was well below zero here today, and with school vacation on, I had to babysit my favorite Kindergartner, also known as #4, my youngest daughter! (I call my daughters as I do my sheep, by number instead of names) LOL

To that end I found the book my Great Uncle had written about being a 1849'er...or 1852'er as it was. It was an interesting read for sure.

I had always thought he went to Centralia, California, but I was off. He kept mentioning Centerville, but come to find out it was actually a town called Grass Valley, California...its first name was Boston Ravine, and then later Centerville, and then later Grass Valley.

So upon telling my wife this, she informed me this is where he aunt lives, and the town where my father-in-law got into prospecting. She has been out there several times and said it was a wonderful spot. It was an interesting way to show how circular the world is, spanning 17,000 miles and 166 years.

 

[triple d]

In a ore sample. Both pyrite and mica. In sunlight or if a light is shining on it. Can look like gold and be very shiny. Remove from the light won"t be shiny. Platnum Crystals are hard and I think are a brassy color. But I think you would be able to crush them. Another way to check is buy some gold. Coos canyon gift shop sells small nuggets. There in Byron Maine. Or you could buy some pay dirt. Which your family could use to practice panning. Or they might be down the street from you. They aren"t open in the winter. But order on the web site or give her a call. She will ship you out some. Rosie the best. Once you see real gold you should be able to tell the difference. I have had some pyrite crystals fool me. Until I crushed them. Gold won"t crush. Small world that interesting California.

 

[OreCart]

Yeah, I am not sure whether or not to be disappointed in my father-in-law failing to see gold after panning, or not.

He is a placer gold hunter so I suspect he might have been looking for larger amounts of gold, but my understanding is lode gold is pretty hard to see. That was what I gave him, something he did not understand. He thought it was "sand" from a stream, but it was pulverized bedrock.

I do not know Rosie in Byron, but I know where she is, we drive through that town on our way to New Hampshire, something we do every few weeks. Like you said, she is not open now, but we will be driving through there Saturday or Sunday. (It is supposed to snow on Sunday making travel treacherous up over Jefferson Hill.

 

[OreCart]

It took a bit of detective work, and a LOT of online searches, but I was able to cross reference the mine report from 1879 of the mine near me. The report is interesting because it supports the thought that what I am seeing is NOT graphite, but galena as I first thought.

The mine primarily produced Copper, Lead and Zinc.

Pyrite, chalcopyrite, sphalerite , galena, gold, silver, copper, lead and zinc were all listed as being found.

The miners were chasing a quartz vein 10 feet wide with slate and schist country rock, on a northeast strike of 62 degrees, with a ridge of phyriterfous slate running just north of the mine shaft.

 

[triple d]

Thats a good find. If there were slate and schist. This is what to look for on your land. And also try to find out if there were. Any faults or ancient volcanic activity. In your area. That could narrow down your search more.

 

[OreCart]

Thats a good find. If there were slate and schist. This is what to look for on your land. And also try to find out if there were. Any faults or ancient volcanic activity. In your area. That could narrow down your search more.

Oh yes, I have known for years that I live in an area of volcanic action from eons ago. A major fault line occurs not many miles away, and it is believed that the movement of the tectonic plates is what formed the massive hills around me. You can actually see the resulting carnage on a relief map where our area juts upwards in an otherwise very flat location.

Slate is actually what got me started on this crazy venture back in 2013. I was clearing land behind my house and was bulldozing massive slabs of slate. There was so much I thought about opening a slate quarry (it pays better than gravel), but did I have enough of it? So on an obscure Maine Geology Survey website was a list of all the mining ever done in Maine, and on that list was a slate quarry only a mile away from my farm. That list was also where I found out the nearby Copper Mine.

The outcropping of rock where I got my ore samples from, was an obvious dyke where mineralization solutions were pushed up through. They went horizontal and not vertical so much, but you can see where mineralization has been pushed up all through the rock.

Every geologist except for one has said there would be gold here, and the one that scoffed was a soil engineer from the USDA-NRCS and was specifically talking about whether my gravel pit had it. She was also from Alaska and might of had a different opinion based on volume of gold.

There is gold here, how much is the question.

 

[OreCart]

The biggest difference of opinion that I have with geologists is that they say Maine's mining boom from 1878-1882 proved the ore concentrations were low because few mine shafts were sunk very deep. I disagree, because few people know that in 1883 the Great depression hit when Silver was rendered almost valueless due to scandal and bank closures. Up until 1929, when a new Depression Era standard was made, for two decades after 1883, America and Europe was in a massive depression with unemployment at nearly 9%.

I assert that it is more likely that they stopped mining because the ore that they worked so hard for yesterday, took the same amount of work but was suddenly worth 1/3 less. Heck gold dropped in value $4 an ounce in a single day of trading, and gold was not that high per ounce back then, so a $4 drop in a single day would have been catastrophic.

All through Maine, copper, silver and zinc are in the 15% range. Gold is not that high granted, but a little history goes a long ways in determining why people do what they do. Myself, I would stop shoveling if farming and logging paid better; and in downturned economies, farming and logging always look good because people have to eat and have a home.

 

[triple d]

Basicly the same thing happened in. Georgia and North Carolina. When all the prospectors moved out west to California. Mining never picked back up in those states. And those states have a lot of gold left. I looked at Maine mine history. Looks to me some good deposits were found and mined. But would always run out. But i think thats whats your looking for. A few ozs of gold. Or a few lbs. silver and copper.The map shows a lot of gold mines. In the middle of Maine close to the Coast. And they usually had someother. Type minerals also.

 

[OreCart]

Basicly the same thing happened in. Georgia and North Carolina. When all the prospectors moved out west to California. Mining never picked back up in those states. And those states have a lot of gold left. I looked at Maine mine history. Looks to me some good deposits were found and mined. But would always run out. But i think thats whats your looking for. A few ozs of gold. Or a few lbs. silver and copper.The map shows a lot of gold mines. In the middle of Maine close to the Coast. And they usually had someother. Type minerals also.

I only know of one mine in this area, but 115 feet deep, it seems like they kept going for a reason. I know compared to out west, 115 feet does not sound like much, and it probably isn't, but when the majority are less than 20 feet deep before giving up, I have hope.

Finding Garnet says a lot too, so I am hopeful.

 

[OreCart]

I have been ore samples ready to ship off, and man all that manual work sucks. I got a crusher, but the jaw only closes to 4 inches, so I am pretty sure the Assay Office would not like a baseball size junk of rock to assay! (LOL)

I have been doodling things up, and mulling over many different designs, and did a couple in C.A.D.

If that impresses anyone, it should not, for this old farmer/logger C.A.D stands for Cardboard Aided Design!

It actually is a great way for a person to work out proportions and see if what they envision will work. I have used it for years, and it is a great way to present my ideas.

My other cardboard 3D rock crusher was a stamping mill, but I think a rod mill would be more of what I would want, based on simplicity, degree of crushing (pulverizing), and cost. I doodled up a jaw crusher too, but did not make a model in cardboard because I am not convinced it will get me the pulverization I want, and parts would be expensive because I would have to put a clutch on it so that a hard rock would not dynamite the transmission of my tractor. Most likely it would stall first, but still, a pto clutch would be best.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The biggest difference of opinion that I have with geologists is that they say Maine's mining boom from 1878-1882 proved the ore concentrations were low because few mine shafts were sunk very deep. I disagree, because few people know that in 1883 the Great depression hit when Silver was rendered almost valueless due to scandal and bank closures. Up until 1929, when a new Depression Era standard was made, for two decades after 1883, America and Europe was in a massive depression with unemployment at nearly 9%.

I assert that it is more likely that they stopped mining because the ore that they worked so hard for yesterday, took the same amount of work but was suddenly worth 1/3 less. Heck gold dropped in value $4 an ounce in a single day of trading, and gold was not that high per ounce back then, so a $4 drop in a single day would have been catastrophic.

All through Maine, copper, silver and zinc are in the 15% range. Gold is not that high granted, but a little history goes a long ways in determining why people do what they do. Myself, I would stop shoveling if farming and logging paid better; and in downturned economies, farming and logging always look good because people have to eat and have a home.

A little monetary history.

The U.S. dollar was defined as being .76 ounces of silver from the time of the Constitution until 1933. Gold was priced in silver dollars at a ratio of 16:1. At no time before 1933 did the value of gold drop any amount of dollars.

Neither gold nor silver were traded on the market during that period. The precious metal values were set by Congress - never by the "market" that would have been tampering with the value of the currency and was illegal.

Heavy Pans

 

[OreCart]

A little monetary history.

The U.S. dollar was defined as being .76 ounces of silver from the time of the Constitution until 1933. Gold was priced in silver dollars at a ratio of 16:1. At no time before 1933 did the value of gold drop any amount of dollars.

Neither gold nor silver were traded on the market during that period. The precious metal values were set by Congress - never by the "market" that would have been tampering with the value of the currency and was illegal.

Heavy Pans

What about the New York Gold Exchange that was in effect between 1862 and 1897?

"The Black Friday, September 24, 1869, gold panic was caused by the efforts of two investors, Jay Gould and his partner James Fisk, also called the Gold Ring, to corner the gold market on the New York Gold Exchange. The scandal took place during the Presidency of Ulysses S. Grant, whose policy was to sell Treasury gold at weekly intervals to pay off the national debt, stabilize the dollar, and boost the economy."

"Starting on September 1, Gould and Fisk put their plot into motion by purchasing $1.5 million in gold in the names of Corbin and Butterfield. The two conspirators would make $15,000 ($263,000 in 2016) for every dollar rise in gold. By September 6, the price of gold had risen by $4.50 to $137 an ounce. By September 7, Gould was faced with a startling reversal when members of his pool were directed to sell off their $6 million they had achieved during the previous buying frenzy. Prices of gold fell sharply from $137 to $134 in one day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(1869)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Gold_Exchange

 

[Clay Diggins]

What about the New York Gold Exchange that was in effect between 1862 and 1897?

"The Black Friday, September 24, 1869, gold panic was caused by the efforts of two investors, Jay Gould and his partner James Fisk, also called the Gold Ring, to corner the gold market on the New York Gold Exchange. The scandal took place during the Presidency of Ulysses S. Grant, whose policy was to sell Treasury gold at weekly intervals to pay off the national debt, stabilize the dollar, and boost the economy."

"Starting on September 1, Gould and Fisk put their plot into motion by purchasing $1.5 million in gold in the names of Corbin and Butterfield. The two conspirators would make $15,000 ($263,000 in 2016) for every dollar rise in gold. By September 6, the price of gold had risen by $4.50 to $137 an ounce. By September 7, Gould was faced with a startling reversal when members of his pool were directed to sell off their $6 million they had achieved during the previous buying frenzy. Prices of gold fell sharply from $137 to $134 in one day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(1869)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Gold_Exchange

I think you misunderstood the Wikipedia articles OreCart. The "Dollar" values quoted were for the greenback notes that were being redeemed by the U.S. - not a change in the value of the gold or the U.S. dollar. The arbitrage was on the paper debt side and not on the gold value. The item being "exchanged" were the greenback debt notes. The gold to dollar value did not change but the gold to greenback value fluctuated as the markets traded greenbacks - not gold. They were hoping to game the greenback redemption market to increase their holdings of gold - not greenback notes which were essentially worthless. It was an active and notorious scam that is well documented.


Think of it this way to understand how gold, silver and the dollar marched in lockstep until 1933:

The U.S. issued a $20 gold coin from 1850 until 1907. The amount of gold in the $20 gold coin did not change during that time. The face value never changed.
During that same time period the U.S. issued a $1 silver coin. The amount of silver in the $1 silver coin did not change until 1935 when the mint stopped making silver dollars. The face value never changed.

At any time from 1850 until 1933 you could exchange 20 - $1 silver coins for one - $20 gold coin or one - $20 gold coin for 20 - $1 silver coins. Their relative values and weights never changed.

As you can see the 0.9675 ounces of gold in the $20 gold coin always equaled 20 silver coins with .76 ounces of silver each until 1933 when gold coin was removed from circulation.

You will see that same gold/silver/dollar ratio no matter what the coin size was. A $10 gold piece was always worth 10 silver dollars etc.

As you can see there was no way to change the face value on the silver and gold coins. That's because the ratio between silver and gold was the only factor that Congress could control. (U.S. Constitution Article I Section 8 #5). There was no paper debt money permitted in the U.S. until the North ran out of silver and gold during the civil war. To keep funding the war they created paper "Greenback" notes that were supposed to be redeemable in gold at some later date.

There was no drop in value of gold to promote the closing of mines before 1933. And that was my point, you need to look for another reason why that lead mine was closed. It certainly wasn't because gold dropped in value. I'm guessing the deposit "pinched out" at depth just like 97% of all other hardrock mines do. Only research into the mine history itself can answer that question.

Heavy Pans

 

[OreCart]

The U.S. issued a $20 gold coin from 1850 until 1907. The amount of gold in the $20 gold coin did not change during that time. The face value never changed.
During that same time period the U.S. issued a $1 silver coin. The amount of silver in the $1 silver coin did not change until 1935 when the mint stopped making silver dollars. The face value never changed.

At any time from 1850 until 1933 you could exchange 20 - $1 silver coins for one - $20 gold coin or one - $20 gold coin for 20 - $1 silver coins. Their relative values and weights never changed.

As you can see the 0.9675 ounces of gold in the $20 gold coin always equaled 20 silver coins with .76 ounces of silver each until 1933 when gold coin was removed from circulation.

You will see that same gold/silver/dollar ratio no matter what the coin size was. A $10 gold piece was always worth 10 silver dollars etc.

As you can see there was no way to change the face value on the silver and gold coins. That's because the ratio between silver and gold was the only factor that Congress could control. (U.S. Constitution Article I Section 8 #5). There was no paper debt money permitted in the U.S. until the North ran out of silver and gold during the civil war. To keep funding the war they created paper "Greenback" notes that were supposed to be redeemable in gold at some later date.

There was no drop in value of gold to promote the closing of mines before 1933. And that was my point, you need to look for another reason why that lead mine was closed. It certainly wasn't because gold dropped in value. I'm guessing the deposit "pinched out" at depth just like 97% of all other hardrock mines do. Only research into the mine history itself can answer that question.

Heavy Pans

I am still confused though because the Coinage Act of 1873 states that, "Due to the high price of silver, little of that metal was presented at the Mint, but Knox and others foresaw that development of the Comstock Lode and other rich silver-mining areas would lower the price, causing large quantities of silver dollars to be struck and the gold standard to be endangered. During the almost three years the bill was pending before Congress, it was rarely mentioned that it would end bimetallism, though this was not concealed. Congressmen instead debated other provisions. The legislation, in addition to ending the production of the silver dollar, abolished three low-denomination coins. The bill became the Act of February 12, 1873, with the signature of President Ulysses S. Grant.

When silver prices dropped in 1876, producers sought to have their bullion struck at the Mint, only to learn that this was no longer possible.

I can see where the value of gold and silver might have been fixed via the mint in terms of coinage, but it does not mean the value of it would not vary because there are other uses for gold and silver beyond being minted.

It would be kind of like how milk is run Maine now. That is where the price of milk is fixed at a certain price; but if the price of milk drops below a certain level dairy farmers are sent a check to make up the difference. They do that so that milk a staple food, does not become in short supply because dairy farmers would go out of business. Because of that, for consumers the price almost never changes in the store, but for my dairy farming family, the price varies widely.

It would seem like it would be the same thing. As long as miners could sell their gold and silver elsewhere for higher prices, they did. But when the price dropped below what the government would pay to have it minted, they would.

That sort of provision would indeed keep the price stable, unless something tipped the apple cart, like Panic of 1879 or the Coinage Act of 1873.

 

[OreCart]

There was no drop in value of gold to promote the closing of mines before 1933. And that was my point, you need to look for another reason why that lead mine was closed. It certainly wasn't because gold dropped in value. I'm guessing the deposit "pinched out" at depth just like 97% of all other hardrock mines do. Only research into the mine history itself can answer that question.

Heavy Pans

That very well may be.

What is interesting though is that Maine Mines started and stopped in a 4 year time period. I find that rather odd, that 99% of mines in Maine all "pinched out" in the exact same year. I find it more likely that economic reasons were the reason for the stoppage since it was so widespread, over such a big area, the same year.

But that is the problem with individual mines and history, while statistically speaking, it is most likely true that they played out, they could have stopped driving the drift because Obadiah's Wife Sarah could not stand Erastus's Wife Carrie, and so it was too much work for Erastus to carry on alone. Or Erastus and Obadiah could no longer get along, or their credit at the local mercantile was terminated for the dynamite they needed. Who really knows, but it is much easier to just say, "there is nothing left to mine."

My own gravel pit is like that. Back in 1969 they used a gasoline powered front shovel with a microscopic 5/8 yard bucket to take out the gravel. Yet every time they hit a boulder they thought it was bedrock, and moved to a new spot to dig. However, digging around now with a 6 yard loader, that "bedrock" proved too be just boulders they could not push out of the way, and there is beautiful gravel beneath them. Another aspect too is, that old front shovel could not dig very far below the level of the tracks, and my gravel pit has much of its gravel below the water table. That is a long way of saying, times and methods change to make things profitable to do.

I have no interest in that particular mine because I do not own the land, it just shows me what is in my area. For instance, even the Maine Geologist's were unsure if I had found Galena or Graphite; since here, slate contains a lot of graphite. In researching that mine, it shows that I most likely have Galena rather than graphite, which is good to know.

 

[OreCart]

Of course all this could just prove that maybe I should go back to my original plan and start a slate quarry which would pay much more than gold ever would...but then, no one has ever heard of getting "Slate Fever!" :-)