thanks again all,Rock your area is a really good place to find them also.I just get to know lots of folks that do not mind me looking for them.Been trying to hunt by the duck river for a long time and now know the brother of a man who has land on it,it also has a very big cave on his property.im going to try to make it to their family reunion and meet him so i know for sure he would not mind if i look around.