To All That Are Culling Copper Cents

[Demon_Wolf]

Hello I was thinking about culling the copper cents like a lot of you are doing. Started talking to my dad about it and he said that had to be the dumbest thing he ever heard off. He then told me that copper wire is 99.9 % copper and anytime copper is alloyed with something it is considered Brass. I told him that copper cents are 95% copper and 5% Zinc. He said it would be considered brass. So I decided to call up the areas big time scrap yard this morning and I asked him what they considered the copper cents and he said BRASS! He said anytime copper is alloyed with something it is considered brass because the people who buy it have to refine it back down to pure copper. He said that the copper in electrical wire and stuff like that is 99.9% copper so that can be melt down to pure copper and there is no refining after that. He also said that all copper is refined to 99.9%, So he asked if I ever seen those copper bullion bars and I said yes. He said there is no difference in them then there is copper wire. I then asked him what brass was going for and he said $1.45 a pound. So I went to coinflation dot com and it said that there was 16.2839 lbs of copper in 25 dollar face value of cents. It also said that there was $66.11 worth of copper in them. So I took 1.45*16.2839=$23.61 So according to the scrap yard you would be loosing money and time from separating the copper cents. I'm sure the price of brass varies from state to state but I just wanted to share what I learned today. May be some of you can call up your local scrap yards and ask about this. I only called one scrap yard but it was the best one around my area that pays the most for scrap. Any thoughts on this?

 

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[Bigheed]

The fact is right now its illegal to melt copper pennies. Once it becomes legal alot more refiners will get into the arbitrage game of buying peoples "hoards" and refining them to sell as pure copper. Thats just my 2 cents but I am quite confident that once the laws are lifted to melt old copper pennies you will get far more than the brass melt value of it.

HH
Bigheed

 

[mts]

The fact is right now its illegal to melt copper pennies. Once it becomes legal alot more refiners will get into the arbitrage game of buying peoples "hoards" and refining them to sell as pure copper. Thats just my 2 cents but I am quite confident that once the laws are lifted to melt old copper pennies you will get far more than the brass melt value of it.

HH
Bigheed

I agree with this. Since it is currently illegal to melt pennies, it makes no sense that your scrap yard would even quote them as being "brass". To your scrap yard they aren't even worth brass prices because they can't do anything with them.

If the melt ban is lifted and the price of copper jumps significantly, there will be plenty of people looking to buy hoards of pennies to process. It is true that it takes more effort to refine the copper out of the pennies. But just like with 90% silver coins, if the value of the precious metal being retrieved is high enough, someone will do it.

But it is an interesting point that you have made about copper classification. I'm just not sure that it will apply in the future if/when copper pennies are allowed to be melted in the US. Scrap yards pay brass prices on non-pure copper because they really don't generally know how much copper is in anything that is not pure. So they lump it all together and lowball the customer. If the amount and value of the copper is known, competition from other scrap dealers will force them to pay a better price that is based on true value. Thus, a new classification will be made to handle the penny situation.

 

[blkcwbyhat]

You have a few valid point's,yet some mis information.I'm not sure what field your father is in,but he is "technically" correct.If you alloy a metal,it is not pure.By that reasoning,a 90% halve is worth less than the equal weight amount of pure silver,due to the refining cost.True,but!!! The term "melt value" is very misused.They don't melt them for the silver or gold or copper anymore! When you send scrap silver or gold to be refined,it's done chemically,in huge vats of acid's,to dissolve the pure stuff out,to be plated or separated later.A silver coin is dumped into a vat,the silver dissolved off,then the copper slug into another vat to dissolve the copper,so on.Think of aqua regina and gold . 14k gold is not pure,only 24k is. If you took a bunch of old house wires for scrap,they pay more to know its purity.If you took your brass candlesticks to the same place,they pay less for the unknown purity.If you took 10 pounds of wire and got X price,and 10 pounds of brass and got a lesser price,that's because the scrap dealer got paid by the refiner for 10# of pure wire,and the brass got 5# of copper and 5# of mixed tin,zinc,whatever. Granted,you will never get COMEX spot for pennies due to the impurity,so thats true.But,being a known purity,you could get 95% of spot.Now,whether its worth the time and effort to wait for the ban to be lifted is up to you.

 

[Diver_Down]

If the melt ban was lifted, why would you sell to a middle man? The scrapper is not a refiner. They need to make money, also. Sell direct to the refiner.

 

[SFBayArea]

Hey.. if you have Canadian copper cents and you are in the U.S., there's no law saying that you can't melt them provided that you found your Canadian coppers in rolls here in the states. There are no U.S. laws that I know of that are against melting foreign coins.

Some Canadian coppers are 98% copper too.

 

[thurmownator]

Hey.. if you have Canadian copper cents and you are in the U.S., there's no law saying that you can't melt them provided that you found your Canadian coppers in rolls here in the states. There are no U.S. laws that I know of that are against melting foreign coins.

Some Canadian coppers are 98% copper too.

The technical specs on Canadian coinage:

http://www.coinscan.com/technical/canasp.html

 

[quiksilver]

ahh you are at that age when you realize your father isnt as smart as you thought when you were younger. the good news is when you get even older you will probably find out he was even smarter, just not with copper pennies. They [pre 82] were are and will be considered copper.

 

[silverfinder20]

just remember Gresham's law is being taken place. "Bad money drives good money out of circulation". For example, do you know how rich you would be if your dad turned all of his paper money to coins back in 1964. If he had $50,000 in silver coins then he would be a millionaire today. Even if the people at the scrap yard wont accept your copper pennies, there will always be people that will buy them for spot price regardless if it is legal or not. Just take a look on ebay. People are buying copper pennies as we speak. However, hoarding copper cents is not a get rich scheme. It is a long term investment that may take 30 years in order for you to sell it. But just remember that it is a safe investment because you know you will never take a loss due to that fact that your investment is always worth face value.

 

[Dok Holliday]

This is all excellent information, and valid points by all. I always look through my change and save the 1981 and older pennies. I have them in a big pile in my desk drawer. Maybe not today, but someday, they'll be worth as much as silver coins are now. Right now I'm not even close to thinking about melting them.

 

[mts]

... For example, do you know how rich you would be if your dad turned all of his paper money to coins back in 1964. If he had $50,000 in silver coins then he would be a millionaire today. ...

But if he had taken that $50k back then and invested it in the stock market he'd likely have even more money ($2.5M+?). And up until this past year, silver has not been a stellar investment. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have had the opportunity to get silver at face value back in 64'. For one thing, there is no risk other than the risk of not making as much money as you could by investing some other way. So it was definitely worth it to hoard silver. But I would not have suggested turning all of one's paper money into silver.

Hoarding copper pennies is very similar. Sure, I could potentially make more money by investing in other things. But hoarding pennies is a form of diversification. I am holding physical metals and I am getting them at way below melt price. It is only one part of my overall investment strategy. And it is a very small part at that.

So hoard pennies. Or not. Who knows? If they go up to 27x face value (like silver) and they drop the melt ban you may make a handsome profit. People will be shaking their heads and wishing that they'd have had the foresight to save copper pennies. And if all else fails they'll still be worth exactly what you paid for them.

 

[jrf30]

I am selling copper pennies TODAY for 1.7 cents per penny. Not sold per pound, nor per pounce, but per penny. I sell $50 of pennies for $85. And they pay shipping.

So regardless of what people say about them being brass, or about it being the dumbest thing someone may have heard about, the fact is that right NOW they are worth 70% more than face to some buyers. I also have a guy who says if I get to 1 million copper pennies that he will pay me 2 cents each for them. I don't know if I'll ever get there, as I keep selling off as I gather them, first at 1.6 cents and now at 1.7 cents, but i have about 1/3 of that amount stored. It ebbs and flows.

And while sorting them I also have picked up over 5,000 wheats. That too adds to the take when you think about the work to separate the copper cents. Some of my wheat pennies are worth dollars, not just cents. the icing bonus on the cake.

So to answer your dad saying it is dumb - I can make 70% on my money in one day. LIterally. With ZERO risk since I can cash them in at face value any time I want and STILL keep the wheats. :-) hy would ANYONE think that is dumb?

 

[mts]

saving pre 82s was the biggest coin roll hunting mistake i ever made.I went to 14 different coin shops and coin shows nobody wants them.They are worth 1 cent.You all might think im naive for saying this but the truth is out there altleast in my part of the country.I took all 4 boxes back to the bank and got face value for them.I will never do this again.But i do love those wheaties.And no i will not use the internet to sell coins no ebay or craigslist its way to risky for the small profit.please feel free to give your opinion on this issue.And who knows maybe im wrong and copper will sky rocket and i will be eating my words but for the moment ill wait.

If people who had hoarded silver coins would have tried to sell them when they were only worth 2x face then they wouldn't have thought it was worth it either. But look at what they are worth now.

If you are willing to sell them on eBay then you will evidently get 1.7x face value. Otherwise, you would want to save them for a while until copper goes up in value a little more. When copper hits 10x face you will have no problem getting a coin dealer to buy them off of you. But I guess that's a moot point now. :P

 

[silverfinder20]

but with that 50k invested in the stock market, theoretically you could end up broke and lose every cent you invested. Look I am not saying that it would have been the best investment ever to convert 50k cash back into 1964 into coins but im just saying that it is a "what if scenario". The same concept applies to copper pennies today. I have less than .05% of my money invested in copper pennies. Which is not alot percentage wise but it has potential to grow just as silver coins did. But for some people it is just a hobby and we had fun doing it at the time, but like some people have posted before that they are already selling their copper pennies for 1.7 cents each. Who knows what copper prices will be 30 years from now. I suggest if you have the time and patience, then it is worth a shot. At least you know you will always get a 100% return on your investment if it dosnt work out the way you planned it too.