Today Finds in Belgium

[kbmarcus]

Hello All - Some finds from a short trip out today near Mons. This is a Gallo Roman coin...

 

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[kbmarcus]

Wouldn't have done you much good unless you like breaking the Law. It's illegal, mostly due to the amount of WWII ordnance laying about.

Crusader: The laws between Flanders and Wallonia (2 of 3 'entities' in Belgium) differ w/specifics - but neither make detecting illegal. In the law there are provisions, more strict in Wallonia, but its not against the law. That's the law in theory. I've detected all over Belgium and, in practice, with permission of the land owner (if you can find him/her) you can detect anywhere expect a) scheduled archaeological sites, and b) fields in which the owner of that field is at the wheel of a tractor plowing said field - and you're in his way. Just as an aside -- metal detecting the First World War sites in West Flanders (e.g Ieper) is just too painful -- WAY too much iron, shell fragments and shrapnel in the ground....
'

 

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[CRUSADER]

Crusader: The laws between Flanders and Wallonia (2 of 3 'entities' in Belgium) differ w/specifics - but neither make detecting illegal. In the law there are provisions, more strict in Wallonia, but its not against the law. That's the law in theory. I've detected all over Belgium and, in practice, with permission of the land owner (if you can find him/her) you can detect anywhere expect a) scheduled archaeological sites, and b) fields in which the owner of that field is at the wheel of a tractor plowing said field - and you're in his way. Just as an aside -- metal detecting the First World War sites in West Flanders (e.g Ieper) is just too painful -- WAY too much iron, shell fragments and shrapnel in the ground....
'

Interesting, not the way I understood it, but good news for you. Although as you say, anywhere the War went the detecting will be lots of digging.

 

[Relicific]

Very nice find
Keep them coming

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Wouldn't have done you much good unless you like breaking the Law. It's illegal, mostly due to the amount of WWII ordnance laying about.

..... I've detected all over Belgium and, in practice, with permission of the land owner (if you can find him/her) you can detect anywhere expect a) scheduled archaeological sites, and b) fields in which the owner of that field is at the wheel of a tractor plowing said field - and you're in his way....

And isn't this so typical. Once anyone ever reads that some place is "illegal" (like to have read Crusader's post, without anyone coming on to correct it like kbmarcus did), then it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to quell. Pretty soon, links lead to links, all pointing to each other saying "such & such is off-limits". Meanwhile, old-timers are scratching their heads saying "since when?".

Then in order to "clear it up" (ie.: "clarify") whether it is or isn't illegal, guess what happens next ? In order to put an end to the question, someone will take the knee-jerk reaction which is to .... doh .... ASK ! Sounds simple enough, eh ? So they go asking bored desk-bound bureaucrats. Who in turn pass the "pressing question" on to purist archies, and then guess what happens ?

 

[CRUSADER]

And isn't this so typical. Once anyone ever reads that some place is "illegal" (like to have read Crusader's post, without anyone coming on to correct it like kbmarcus did), then it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to quell. Pretty soon, links lead to links, all pointing to each other saying "such & such is off-limits". Meanwhile, old-timers are scratching their heads saying "since when?".

Then in order to "clear it up" (ie.: "clarify") whether it is or isn't illegal, guess what happens next ? In order to put an end to the question, someone will take the knee-jerk reaction which is to .... doh .... ASK ! Sounds simple enough, eh ? So they go asking bored desk-bound bureaucrats. Who in turn pass the "pressing question" on to purist archies, and then guess what happens ?

http://inc-cin.org/assets/pdf/articles/laws-belgium.pdf

 

[CRUSADER]

And isn't this so typical. Once anyone ever reads that some place is "illegal" (like to have read Crusader's post, without anyone coming on to correct it like kbmarcus did), then it becomes IMPOSSIBLE to quell. Pretty soon, links lead to links, all pointing to each other saying "such & such is off-limits". Meanwhile, old-timers are scratching their heads saying "since when?".

Then in order to "clear it up" (ie.: "clarify") whether it is or isn't illegal, guess what happens next ? In order to put an end to the question, someone will take the knee-jerk reaction which is to .... doh .... ASK ! Sounds simple enough, eh ? So they go asking bored desk-bound bureaucrats. Who in turn pass the "pressing question" on to purist archies, and then guess what happens ?

So reading the Law, whats your response?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

So reading the Law, whats your response?

Which state/provence ? The link covers multiple, with varying wordings.

All such things can probably equally be said of Britain too. Because all resources under the soil "belongs to the queen". Right ? Yet last I checked, md'ing is WIDESPREAD in Britain. And ... sure... when they find a hoard, they "report it". And if/when they hunt a public land historic archie site (Stonehenge, etc....) they probably need permits. So I think you're reading too much into this.

Also, most of it appears to be for public lands only. So then the same could be said for the USA (Arpa law). Yet laws governing what you find on a federal (or state) land would have no bearing on private land with farmer's permission (why do you think that 99% of British hunters hunt private furrowed field land ?)

Notice the recurring wordings of: for "archaeological purposes" and "archaeological finds" "archaeological discoveries" "archaeological monument", "coin hoards" only. The person who compiled that said himself this is vague. Ok .... sure, fine, you're "only hunting for modern" stuff. Or "only hunting for individual coins". So what ? And notice too that often time in European countries, coins that are a "mere" 500 yrs. old are not old or significant. Of, fine, how good is your math ?

And notice the author explicitly saying "no ordinance relating to metal detectors exists". So it's just ancillary stuff that *might* apply if you stand on one foot and squint real hard and ask enough bored archies. Well gee, so too can any USA find himself afoul of probably 10 different laws every time he went out. Depending on who he asked and how he asked it . Eg. Lost & found laws, alter/deface laws, cultural heritage, IRS and taxes, etc....

And notice the article writer's conclusion:

" .... Although searching goes on, hardly any object found outside official excavations is shown. Detectorists are far from being ‘persecuted’ in Belgium.... "

As for the section of Postscript 2003: How much you wanna make a bet that any such amendments were coming as a result of md'rs going in and seeking clarifications, definintions, interpretations of prior vague wording, etc.... ?

But Crusader, let's just cut to the chase and assume for the moment that a link such as this means "md'ing is illegal in Belgium". Then how are Belgium hunters doing it ? The OP on this thread is not the first Belgium hunter to come on with show & tell after all .

In this hobby, if you're waiting for red-carpets to be rolled out for you, you're in the wrong hobby.

 

[landmagnet]

Great fnd in very good condition. Congratulations.

 

[CRUSADER]

Here is some 2015 update on the Colchester site for Flanders area only:

These definition are or Flanders only.

A metal detectorist is someone who is working with a metal detector to detect archaeological sites or artefacts. From the date of 1 January 2015 you require for this activity an acknowledgment (in the form of a permit reached out by the concerning department). Conditions Whoever wants to be recognized to be operating with a metal detecting device, must meet the following conditions: • To be at least 18 years old. • The last five years not have been convicted of an offense or crime in the area of real Heritage • To be acting according to the requirements of the Heritage Decree. This requires a basic knowledge of archaeological heritage conservation and the established code of good practice. Procedure A designation as recognized detectorist can be applied from 1 January 2015. After a maximum of four months (of an acceptable and approved application by the Agency) the then recognized detectorist receives identification. This can be used only when the chapter on Archaeology of the decree enters into law. A designation as a recognized metal detectorist is of indefinite duration but can be evaluated by the agency and repealed if there are any irregularities Note To search with a metal detector you don't need a license if you're not looking for archaeological material. Beach Search, lost jewellery tracking, manhole covers, power lines, meteorites ... can all be searched for unlicensed. When you find valuable archaeological objects while searching for such objects, you are still obliged to report it as the law requires. What is an "accidental" archaeological find? In practice it is difficult for a non-expert eye to distinguish important from a trivial discovery. Report it is therefore better too report much than too little, for what at first does not seem interesting, can later be of great importance. The legislator already used this definition: "all remains and objects and any other traces of human existence, which bear witness to epochs and civilizations for which excavations or discoveries are a significant source of information, catalogued into fixed and movable archaeological monuments." Rules of thumb The chance discovery occurred in Flanders until the Middle Ages: report all finds Later periods: report only the concentration of finds World Wars: all finds should be reported The upper time limit of the report's findings reaches to the end of World War II . Not only report the "nice" finds out of a collection, but the whole collection When in doubt, report finding What you do not mention: hunting shells, buttons, ...