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deducer

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Jan 7, 2014
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Excellent info, thank you. One of the few books I have not read, and it’s leaving me
ill informed. I wouldn’t agree that statement told to Reid proves the 1st set of covered mines occurred on black top Mesa, however.

I do recall reading somewhere that Geronimo Head was also called a black mountain or some other name with black in it. It is also north of the needle, with quite a few interesting options for other covered mines up canyon. From black top mesa, up canyon could only be weavers needle or bluff springs?

It has always felt that a lot of searchers want/wanted the location to be on black top mesa. I do understand there is a wealth of information out there that I won’t ever see or hear. From the limited info I do have to work with, i personally don’t understand the fascination.

That testimony isn't by any means proof of anything and I don't offer it as such. Nearly everything to do with the history of these mountains exists as hearsay and is best enjoyed that way, i.e., as a tale.

When people try to impose a burden of proof requirement on these stories, or worst, some ridiculous "scientific process" is when the fun goes out of this whole thing.
 

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Geoffnotjeff

Geoffnotjeff

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Nov 30, 2019
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IMG_1674.jpeg


Great day hike up to tortilla mtn peak and then over to the north edge on what I’m not sure you would call this area this picture was taken from, maybe the northern flank on the eastern divide of the mountain?

We found nothing except a lot of mineralization up both the canyons we came up from the east side and a different one we down on the east side. Grabbed some great small samples of what appears to be white quartz with that *soft* look, and it was the first time over ever see minerals with that look laying exposed on the surface, instead of pulling them out of veins or having to work them out. Very cool! It was also interesting how it was so abundant and then just stops about 400-500’ below the elevation I snapped this pic from. The rock didn’t seem to change, however I’m not a geologist and I’m probably wrong as usual when it comes to anything geology! 😂

Doesn’t look like there is a lot of traffic up there, maybe some signs on the path we took from the saddle the bisects the mountain to the peak, but none on our way up to, in this area, or down.

Anyway, great views and this one is looking down at the general areas to visit next, either this weekend or after the rendezvous. Perfect weather right now, that’s for sure!
 

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Geoffnotjeff

Geoffnotjeff

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Nov 30, 2019
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Geronimo Head mountain was in the early days known as Lewis Mountain.
It was Malapai that was once known as black mountain.
The Black mountain we know today was formerly known as Charleboise (Charley Boy) mountain.
All these names were changed, moved, switched and added when the official topo maps were updated in the late 50,s early 60's.
Al Reser took over Roy Bradford's camp in upper Deering canyon at the southeast base of Malapai Mountain in about 1960.
There are a few mine diggings in that southeast base of Malapai not far from Reser's camp.
Al showed me those diggings and a trail long forgotten that led up to the top of Malapai that no one would believe possible.
Mr. Roberts, would you be willing to draw out privately or publicly the trail long forgotten that heads up malapai you mentioned?

It’s my next target to explore, especially after some great views from tortilla last week. I’m currently looking at a lot of very direct approaches coming up the north side from pesters canyon, and if impassable pushing on up peters till the approach is not. Neither myself of my hiking partner is a “daisy” as you have eloquently stated before about those capable of making it deep in :).

Would the diggings you have noted be by chance any of the locations you have marked on the map you posted with both a small piece of ore? I believe you posted one without the ore as well to speak about Walter Gassler and the locations he was interested in making claims for prior to the SWA in ‘84? Small x’s and dots that look hand drawn.

I have noted what I believe to be trails, which of course may be animal, human, drainage or nothing at all, on each side of the mountain to explore. Some I know have seen activity, others I would have no way of knowing. Any info would be highly appreciated if you are willing to provide it!

Geoff Britten
 

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Geoffnotjeff

Geoffnotjeff

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This was a really neat find in an area I was interested in after following some landmarks high up on tortilla.

Im sure it could be natural, but didn’t appear to be, and appears to be filled in with small Hand placed rocks to close up the entrance. If it wasn’t natural, they were placed quite awhile ago with the lichen growth.
IMG_1661.jpeg



As I’m sure many experienced searchers know, there is a lot of mineralization on tortilla on the east flank (and probably all over!)

Here are some cool pics of veins of what I assume to be quartz, but are probably wrong on, as usual, when it comes to anything geological.

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Mostly found in a very steep canyon that definitely does not have a trail, and I would not recommend without class 4/5 scrambling ability and comfort/experience. Float was everywhere. Really cool to see!

Fortune favors the bold, at least when it comes to taking the path less traveled!

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Geoffnotjeff

Geoffnotjeff

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Nov 30, 2019
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Continuing with the topic of cool things to see…!

Manmade? Great idea if it was, and I’m fairly sure it was! On the hike up to the top of Geronimo head.

Very cool to have it line up with the 4 peaks.

IMG_1541.jpeg
 

FRESH BLOOD

Newbie
Nov 26, 2016
4
7
Apache Junction
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Geronimo Head mountain was in the early days known as Lewis Mountain.
It was Malapai that was once known as black mountain.
The Black mountain we know today was formerly known as Charleboise (Charley Boy) mountain.
All these names were changed, moved, switched and added when the official topo maps were updated in the late 50,s early 60's.
Al Reser took over Roy Bradford's camp in upper Deering canyon at the southeast base of Malapai Mountain in about 1960.
There are a few mine diggings in that southeast base of Malapai not far from Reser's camp.
Al showed me those diggings and a trail long forgotten that led up to the top of Malapai that no one would believe possible.
I have seen those diggings and they dont go very deep but they sure do make you wonder what they were looking for..of course ..that is not an easy place to get to . .and the steep loose gravel is no picnik.....lol..ive been all over that area and there is definatley alot to take in.
 

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Geoffnotjeff

Geoffnotjeff

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Nov 30, 2019
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I have seen those diggings and they dont go very deep but they sure do make you wonder what they were looking for..of course ..that is not an easy place to get to . .and the steep loose gravel is no picnik.....lol..ive been all over that area and there is definatley alot to take in.
Where are they exactly? I would love to visit them on my next trip out there.
 

deducer

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Jan 7, 2014
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Continuing with the topic of cool things to see…!

Manmade? Great idea if it was, and I’m fairly sure it was! On the hike up to the top of Geronimo head.

Very cool to have it line up with the 4 peaks.

View attachment 2112910


Thanks for sharing your pictures. I miss being out there.

Is the road beyond Tortilla Flat (or Mesquite Flat) still closed? Or has it opened again?
 

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Geoffnotjeff

Geoffnotjeff

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Thanks for sharing your pictures. I miss being out there.

Is the road beyond Tortilla Flat (or Mesquite Flat) still closed? Or has it opened again?

Easy to see why, it’s really great country. Felt like home once we got up a bit higher out of the canyons!
IMG_1665.jpeg


We took 88 past TF, to the TF trailhead. Signs stated the road was closed ahead but didn’t get far enough to see where it was closed.
 

Cubfan64

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Feb 13, 2006
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Thanks for sharing your pictures. I miss being out there.

Is the road beyond Tortilla Flat (or Mesquite Flat) still closed? Or has it opened again?
Deducer - as of a couple weeks ago 88 is gated starting just at the top of Fish Creek Hill - right by the entrance to the overlook parking area.
 

cyzak

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Awesomes photos thank you for sharing them.Keep it going, boots on the ground is what it takes.
 

deducer

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Easy to see why, it’s really great country. Felt like home once we got up a bit higher out of the canyons! View attachment 2117649

We took 88 past TF, to the TF trailhead. Signs stated the road was closed ahead but didn’t get far enough to see where it was closed.


Was the TF trailhead open?

Also, is that you sitting on the rock?
 

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Geoffnotjeff

Geoffnotjeff

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Was the TF trailhead open?

Also, is that you sitting on the rock?
Yes, the trailhead parking was open, road past it to the ranch was in bad shape, but i understand it has been for awhile.

That's a friend on the rock, im in the blue below!
unnamed (2).jpg
 

Cubfan64

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Yes, the trailhead parking was open, road past it to the ranch was in bad shape, but i understand it has been for awhile.

That's a friend on the rock, im in the blue below! View attachment 2117804
Yeah - the first section of road to the old ranch site is rough - I think the Forest Service likes it that way to be honest - cuts down on the number of people who can drive it.
 

Steve Bowser

Greenie
Sep 5, 2023
12
55
Ahwatukee, AZ
Yeah - the first section of road to the old ranch site is rough - I think the Forest Service likes it that way to be honest - cuts down on the number of people who can drive it.
I drove FR213 from the Apache Trail to the Tortilla Windmill yesterday for my hike up to Tortilla Peak area, my Jeep Rubicon had no trouble.
In the places I saw on my hike, Tortilla Creek was dry - no flow and no potholes.
 

Matthew Roberts

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Apr 27, 2013
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In 1966 the US Forest Service purchased the Tortilla ranch from Floyd Stone the owner for $70K.
Not long afterward the FS closed FR213 the only access to the ranch and trailhead. After a long battle with the public the FS grudgingly reopened FR213 with a bad taste in their mouth.
The ranch barn and corrals were continued to be occasionally used as a collection site for cattle and horses during roundups on the Superstition Range grazing allotments.
By 1980 most of the cattle were off the Tortilla portion of the allotment and the FS had vigorously began their dismantling of the Tortilla ranch.
In the 1970's one could still easily drive a family station wagon automobile the 4 miles to the Tortilla Ranch on FR213.
Then, almost overnight the beginning of the ranch road just off the Apache Trail became impassable for anything other than a high profile 4 wheel drive vehicle.

Al Reser a good friend of Floyd Stone the former ranch owner, drove that road many times in his family car said the road did not suddenly "wash out," as that part of the road was solid rock. The only way the road became the condition it is in was that dynamite had to have been used to create what is today called the "stairstep" portion of the ranch road.
 

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