🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Toy or real shotgun barrel

[mmocha2905]

1800s site. I know nothing about guns, but part of a toy gun? Heavy iron.

 

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[sibbley]

Looks like there is no way to load the breach. Looks too heavy to be a toy though.

 

[BAW]

They are real hook-breech barrels for a muzzleloading shotgun. One of them seems to be marked with the letters ELG in a round cartouche, showing it was made in Belgium. They are probably from around 1860-1900.

 

[sibbley]

They are real hook-breech barrels for a muzzleloading shotgun. One of them seems to be marked with the letters ELG in a round cartouche, showing it was made in Belgium. They are probably from around 1860-1900.

I was just wondering if the loops on the bottom were for a ram rod.

 

[mmocha2905]

They are real hook-breech barrels for a muzzleloading shotgun. One of them seems to be marked with the letters ELG in a round cartouche, showing it was made in Belgium. They are probably from around 1860-1900.

How you saw that ELG is astounding. What is a hook breech barrel?

 

[mmocha2905]

How you saw that ELG is astounding. What is a hook breech barrel?

Also how would that be loaded? Did those unscrew or something?

 

[sibbley]

It was loaded from the end of the barrel. Powder charge then projectile. The loops on the bottom held the rod you would remove and ram the projectile and powder charge down to the breach.

 

[sibbley]

Can you take a picture with the loops on the bottom? I'd like to see if there are vents on each barrel.

 

[mmocha2905]

Can you take a picture with the loops on the bottom? I'd like to see if there are vents on each barrel.

 

[Retired Sarge]

How you saw that ELG is astounding. What is a hook breech barrel?

When you are a firearms enthusiast you can tell what markings are just by a glance. I'm late to the party and saw the ELG marking and knew what it was, then saw BAW had already mentioned it.

All that said, cool recovery and artifact.

Take a rod, stick or something put it in each barrel and mark the depth on the rod/stick, then lay it next to to the barrels and see how far the rod/stick went down. This is used to determine if the barrel(s) are still loaded.

 

[Rmeav8r]

As others have said it was a working firearm. Sarge has a good point, not unusual for one or both barrels to have a loaded charge still there.

 

[BAW]

The term "hook-breech" means that the breechplugs screwed into the breech end of the barrels are angled or slightly hook shaped; instead of being held to the wooden stock with screws the hooks fit into the holes of a separate standing breech, which is held to the stock by screws. It is a method of making the barrels removable without the use of tools. One simply drives out the wedge, which is a metal 'key' which goes in one side of the forend, through the wedge tennon (the small loop on the underside of the barrel, shown in your last set of photographs) and through the other side of the forend. Then the muzzle is lifted upwards and the hooks 'unhook' from the standing breech and the barrels are completely detatched from the stock. If the wedge gets loose and falls out unnoticed, the barrels will detatch themselves as soon as the ramrod is removed. If they hit the ground nipple first they sometimes go off, and were often lost overboard from boats.

 

[sibbley]

Great pics. On the right barrel looks like the shotgun was percussion. That little nub is where the cap would have been placed. When the hammer struck the cap a spark ignited the powder charge. The left side looks to rotted off.

 

[mmocha2905]

Is there a picture of a restored one so I can see how it would have looked. Using a stick, I measured, doesnt seem to me to be loaded, but who am I to say.

 

[sibbley]

Found these online. Should be similar.

 

[mmocha2905]

Found these online. Should be similar.

View attachment 2097421View attachment 2097422

Ok, I'm beginning to see now how they work.

 

[releventchair]

Is there a picture of a restored one so I can see how it would have looked. Using a stick, I measured, doesnt seem to me to be loaded, but who am I to say.

You hold the barrels. So you should say! L.o.l..

Feel and figure it out by measuring. Old barrels or I'd say tink tink method using brass.

two barrels loaded meant if you shoot one, check the other that the load did not move before shooting it. To avoid a gap between powder and lead/shot/bullet.
But that's to easy a concept (one barrel measures longer than the other inside vs both the same.)

Those nipples indicate where spark met powder. There was were no bullet where the flash channel (tiny hole through nipple becomes a bigger hole beyond into rear of chamber/hollow area powder awaits ignition. But there was /is room for powder.
If you can reach that nipple flash channel inside the barrel , nobody is home.
If you can't reach the flash channel , something is preventing you.
Envision where it endsoutside by having used a guage (wooden stick or non sparking equivilent) to "measure" inside with first.
Then compare the mark at end of barrels when it was seated inside....To the outside.

 

[Groundhogg]

1800s site. I know nothing about guns, but part of a toy gun? Heavy iron.

REALLY cool find...the rest has to be there somewhere. Good luck!

 

[cw0909]

Ok, I'm beginning to see now how they work.

mmocha2905, if you are really interested
I think there are 40 parts from start to finish on the build of a hook-breech barrel shotgun
I ran across it last year, I never knew about that type of shotgun, I found it very interesting

I think this link will start at part 1, then will play the next parts