Trade Knife?

[USNFLYR]

Bought this years ago from an antique store in a small PNW town. The lady selling it claimed it was a fur trapper knife. I’m finally trying to catalogue my finds/purchases….
Is this a fur trade item?

 

[pepperj]

Bought this years ago from an antique store in a small PNW town. The lady selling it claimed it was a fur trapper knife. I’m finally trying to catalogue my finds/purchases….
Is this a fur trade item? View attachment 2225422View attachment 2225423

It's very unique that's for sure.

 

[USNFLYR]

I always thought maybe a skilled person took a flint striker and pounded it into a shaver....
....but then. I found out blacksmiths would curl/twist their work during an early period of the blacksmith era.

 

[unclemac]

those are one of the simplest things for a blacksmith to make.... a beginners project.... I have seen this done, and fairly quickly too.

 

[robertk]

those are one of the simplest things for a blacksmith to make.... a beginners project.... I have seen this done, and fairly quickly too.

Agreed, that's a hand forged knife for sure. Looks like it was just a piece of square rod that was beaten flat on one end, then thinned and twisted on the other. Whether it's from a fur trader, I can't say, but purely from a manufacturing standpoint, it could have been made any time.

 

[mntnflyr4fun]

Bought this years ago from an antique store in a small PNW town. The lady selling it claimed it was a fur trapper knife. I’m finally trying to catalogue my finds/purchases….
Is this a fur trade item? View attachment 2225422View attachment 2225423

Looks like a fighting knife design to me.... cut with one end, "brass knuckles" with the other

 

[USNFLYR]

I did bring it to one of the Antique shows at my local fairgrounds where you paid 5.00 per item to get assessed by experts. The person that looked at it thought it was old, and offered to buy it from me. He seemed to be qualified. Though, I realize the experts here know what they are talking about, too. I’m curious if a modern smithy would’ve smoothed out the cavities on both sides of the blade?

 

[unclemac]

those pits look more like corrosion, the knife was cleaned up quite a bit

 

[ticndig]

looks like knife made in the back yard of a Wanna-Be blacksmith in training.

 

[ARC]

This technique / style has been done forever...

Do a Google search for ... "wrought iron twisted handle knife".

 

[USNFLYR]

So the prevailing wisdom, is it is modern, could not have been made during a time when the only blacksmith was at a frontier post. I need to research rail road anvils and field black smithing. Modern is what I’m hearing.

Thanks guys.

This technique / style has been done forever...

Do a Google search for ... "wrought iron twisted handle knife".

Thanks. I’ll keep looking for an identical one

 

[Tesorodeoro]

looks like knife made in the back yard of a Wanna-Be blacksmith in training.

That accurately describes the majority of trappers, explorers Pioneers that were not blacksmith by trade. That sounds like it would likely be an easy knife to mass produce if square stock was available. In the wilderness everything was recycled materials, not bar stock.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

FYI railroad steel is unique. It almost looks like a more modern knife made from a RR spike, which is plentiful. Might be able to test the metal.

 

[USNFLYR]

looks like knife made in the back yard of a Wanna-Be blacksmith

FYI railroad steel is unique. It almost looks like a more modern knife made from a RR spike, which is plentiful. Might be able to test the metal.

Thanks Tesorodeoro. Great info!

 

[ARC]

So the prevailing wisdom, is it is modern, could not have been made during a time when the only blacksmith was at a frontier post. I need to research rail road anvils and field black smithing. Modern is what I’m hearing.

Thanks guys.



Thanks. I’ll keep looking for an identical one

Like i stated .. this style has been done forever,... still made today... so dating it could be hard.
Yours does have an "older" look... and very well could be an antique... just going to be a hard one.
And yes... metal testing might be the only sure way to pin it down.

 

[Gare]

How about a early chefs knife ?

 

[releventchair]

Repro of a concept.

For starters a trapper would need finesse to use it.
Consider the environs. As in freezing. Would anyone care to hold such? For what purpose? Not to skin with. The design fails.

For a repro of a concept today it could be hardened (case hardened or sugar used or modern surface hardening compound allowing it to be used for flint and steel fire starting.)

Fleshing hides in the cold takes a toll on hands. Tiny tools after aren't quite entertaining.
Furs are not prime until it has been cold a while.

Whoever stated trapper knife should have tried civilian strike a light knife or something.
They put it out of context .
then try to give it an age...

A home smithy (and most homesteads had a forge ; if not one was near somewhere. Small forges about as big as a common kitchen sink) would delight in an old file to make such an item. Good steel.

Pits are not good on a blades edge.
What trapper would want even a tiny knife to have a notch or more in the business edge of a hardened blade edge when pits are encountered?
That would require more work. Something not needed. Let alone paid/traded for to create.

Finally, how hot a spark does it throw?
If it isn't the hottest no self respecting trapper back when would want anything to do with it.

(Look up flint and steel strikers for varieties.)

 

[USNFLYR]

Repro of a concept.

For starters a trapper would need finesse to use it.
Consider the environs. As in freezing. Would anyone are to hold such? For what purpose? Not to skin with. The design fails.

For a repro of a concept today it could be hardened (case hardened or sugar used or modern surface hardening compound allowing it to be used for flint and steel fire starting.

Fleshing hides in the cold takes a toll on hands. Tiny tools after aren't quite entertaining.
Furs are not prime until it has been cold a while.

Whoever stated trapper knife should have tried civilian strike a light knife or something.
They put it out of context .
then try to give it an age...

A home smithy (and most homesteads had a forge ; if not one was near somewhere. Small forges about as big as a common kitchen sink) would delight in an old file to make such an item. Good steel.

Pits are not good on a blades edge.
What trapper would want even a tiny knife to have a notch or more in the business edge of a hardened blade edge when pits are encountered?
That would require more work. Something not needed. Let alone paid/traded for to create.

Finally, how hot a spark does it throw?
If it isn't the hottest no self respecting trapper back when would want anything to do with it.

(Look up flint and steel strikers for varieties.)
View attachment 2225531

Releventchair. You attacked it from all angles! Thanks for the well thought out reply. Adding context to your inputs, the item was bought in Vader, Wa. Until the 49th parallel was drawn as a border north of the Columbia River was British territory. After Lewis and Clark, most homesteaders were forced south into present Oregon. Of course the item could’ve been brought west later (heirloom/handed down tool, etc), but if you assume it was made near Vader Wa, then you start researching (and finding out) that trappers that worked the area between Nisqually and Vancouver were Hudson Bay employees. That would be the era when the twisted handle style was in fashion and/or when flints were regularly used. By the time American citizens gained access to the area with donation land claims (mid 19th century) and emigrated to Washington blacksmiths and forges followed. As which has been pointed out by several replies, repro's like these have been made for generations. Even if made by a small forge, it wouldn’t be wise to waste good metal for such a small tool during the trapper/trade period. Maybe I narrow my search for items made no earlier than the mid to late 19th century to the present?

 

[pepperj]

Releventchair. You attacked it from all angles! Thanks for the well thought out reply. Adding context to your inputs, the item was bought in Vader, Wa. Until the 49th parallel was drawn as a border north of the Columbia River was British territory. After Lewis and Clark, most homesteaders were forced south into present Oregon. Of course the item could’ve been brought west later (heirloom/handed down tool, etc), but if you assume it was made near Vader Wa, then you start researching (and finding out) that trappers that worked the area between Nisqually and Vancouver were Hudson Bay employees. That would be the era when the twisted handle style was in fashion and/or when flints were regularly used. By the time American citizens gained access to the area with donation land claims (mid 19th century) and emigrated to Washington blacksmiths and forges followed. As which has been pointed out by several replies, repro's like these have been made for generations. Even if made by a small forge, it wouldn’t be wise to waste good metal for such a small tool during the trapper/trade period. Maybe I narrow my search for items made no earlier than the mid to late 19th century to the present?

Probably narrow your search from the mud .to late 20th century.
Artisan concept?

 

[releventchair]

Releventchair. You attacked it from all angles! Thanks for the well thought out reply. Adding context to your inputs, the item was bought in Vader, Wa. Until the 49th parallel was drawn as a border north of the Columbia River was British territory. After Lewis and Clark, most homesteaders were forced south into present Oregon. Of course the item could’ve been brought west later (heirloom/handed down tool, etc), but if you assume it was made near Vader Wa, then you start researching (and finding out) that trappers that worked the area between Nisqually and Vancouver were Hudson Bay employees. That would be the era when the twisted handle style was in fashion and/or when flints were regularly used. By the time American citizens gained access to the area with donation land claims (mid 19th century) and emigrated to Washington blacksmiths and forges followed. As which has been pointed out by several replies, repro's like these have been made for generations. Even if made by a small forge, it wouldn’t be wise to waste good metal for such a small tool during the trapper/trade period. Maybe I narrow my search for items made no earlier than the mid to late 19th century to the present?

Flint and Steel Striker Styles

People often ask me abut fire steel shapes other than the shape that I usually make, so I got Northwood Iowa Dave Hartwig's permission to show a number of different strike-a-light shapes that he has researched.

spaco.org