TURKEY UPDATE 7/31/2013

[dirtfisher23]

Finally, I have received word from the Consulate in Los Angeles; It reads as follows
with regards to the law regulating Metal Detecting in Turkey. HOWEVER, keep in mind
that not all local policing in Turkey may be on the same page. Ignorance runs rampant
everywhere. Some police are just as corrup as they are anywhere else and assume you do not
know the law, arrest you, and PRESTO they have a brand new metal detector. BEWARE!



From

Losangeles Ticaret Ataşeliği

To


Dear Sir:

We have checked the permission requirement for searching treasures and contacted in Turkish Custom Consul in Washington D.C. in this matter.

In Turkey, searching treasury is legal but those who want to search, need to apply to government office or nearest museum administration to receive the permission. In this case, administration issue a certificate and provide an witness officer accompanying with you during the search of specified area.

For metal detector for touristic purposes, entering to Turkey, Custom Consul in Washington D.C responded as ; This particular item is not listed as special item that the passenger can bring in limited quantity which means that it is considered as personal item. Any item for personal use up to 430 Euro value, can be entered with passenger and doesn't require additional custom charge. Since the product is special and custom officer may keep it, in this case, your detector is kept at the custom's warehouse, then you can receive back when you leave the Turkey.

If you need more assistance you can contact to Custom Consul in Washington directly washington@egm.gov.tr

Kindly Regards,



Murat GOREN

Commercial Attache of Los Angeles

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hmmm, interesting. So maybe those guys md'ing in Turkey aren't "doing it illegally" afterall. (Oh SAY IT ISN'T So!

)

As for the part of "with a permit" (or permission or inquire at each location type of stuff), gee, that doesn't sound very different than some of the states on the FMDAC list for the USA, eh? You know, the "inquire at each kiosk" or "with permission from each district park's sector supervisor", blah blah blah. And as far as permits, gee, so too is there cities and counties who have invented such things. And no, they're not hard to obtain.

But back to the Los Angeles consulate's answer, a few observations:

a) I notice that the words: "treasure" is used. So ..... I wonder what would happen if you went to apply for this permission/permit thing, that ..... if you were to tell them "oh, well... I'm not really looking for "TREASURE" per se, but rather for individual fumble fingers modern coins and/or jewelry, from the modern beach" I wonder if they would laugh you out of the office, and say that hardly merits "treasure".

b) I still wonder if this applies to private land? Maybe such an answer is talking about public land ?

c) I notice the person answering does not cite any rule or law, to reference the answer they give you. Thus I wonder if that is really written anywhere? I guess it must be, if there's a known or established "permit" that's apparently out there? If so, I'd wonder what the permit paperwork looks like. Because perhaps that has more info. on what you can do, what they mean by "treasure", and so forth.

 

[Ism]

A couple days ago, Turkish officials arrested a bird they thought was an Israeli spy just because it had a migration tag on its leg.
Take a detector at your own risk, especially if your name ends in "stein" or "berg".

 

[dirtfisher23]

Hahahahaha. Very true.
Also keep in mind that if any of them ask you if you want to drop by
their home and get stoned...DON'T GO!

 

[RotZorn]

Wow

 

[jeff of pa]

administration issue a certificate and provide an witness officer accompanying with you during the search of specified area.

no thanks !
someone (anyone) over my shoulder just does not work for me.

plus you know what happens with everything worth digging

Any item for personal use up to 430 Euro (568.37 US Dollar)

value, can be entered with passenger and doesn't require additional custom charge.

that means no high end detector unless you want to pay them ?

HOWEVER, keep in mind
that not all local policing in Turkey may be on the same page. Ignorance runs rampant
everywhere. Some police are just as corrup as they are anywhere else

yea no doubt especially if they always wanted their own Detector.

and it might be an Isreal Listening (Spying) device

 

[M Scott @ FTP]

Hmmm, interesting. So maybe those guys md'ing in Turkey aren't "doing it illegally" afterall. (Oh SAY IT ISN'T So!

)

As for the part of "with a permit" (or permission or inquire at each location type of stuff), gee, that doesn't sound very different than some of the states on the FMDAC list for the USA, eh? You know, the "inquire at each kiosk" or "with permission from each district park's sector supervisor", blah blah blah. And as far as permits, gee, so too is there cities and counties who have invented such things. And no, they're not hard to obtain.

But back to the Los Angeles consulate's answer, a few observations:

a) I notice that the words: "treasure" is used. So ..... I wonder what would happen if you went to apply for this permission/permit thing, that ..... if you were to tell them "oh, well... I'm not really looking for "TREASURE" per se, but rather for individual fumble fingers modern coins and/or jewelry, from the modern beach" I wonder if they would laugh you out of the office, and say that hardly merits "treasure".

b) I still wonder if this applies to private land? Maybe such an answer is talking about public land ?

c) I notice the person answering does not cite any rule or law, to reference the answer they give you. Thus I wonder if that is really written anywhere? I guess it must be, if there's a known or established "permit" that's apparently out there? If so, I'd wonder what the permit paperwork looks like. Because perhaps that has more info. on what you can do, what they mean by "treasure", and so forth.

Tom, I talked to a few of my friends in Turkey that sell metal detectors and detect over there.

Good news;
Detecting in Turkey is legal and you do not need a license.

Bad news;
You need a license or permit to DIG anywhere in the ground (this includes beaches). The law is ANYTHING UNDER the ground belongs to the state even if it’s down under your house. If you dig without permission and are caught you will be arrested and go to court and your detector confiscated.
Police normally arrest anyone found with a detector because it’s assumed they are digging or removing objects from under the ground especially if they have any kind of tool that could be used for digging but people are also arrested without any type of digging tools. Permits are rarely given except to archeologist or those working with them and virtually never to foreign nationals unless they are working with archeologist or on government sponsored digs. On the rare occasion that they are they have to be accompanied by an official which is costly so rarely happens outside of government sponsored digs.

The majority of people in Turkey that detect do dig illegally and go to extreme lengths to avoid being caught-night time and remote regions are where it is usually practiced with a team of ‘lookouts’ warning of possible approaching officials trying to catch them in the act.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Tom, I talked to a few of my friends in Turkey that sell metal detectors and detect over there.

Good news;
Detecting in Turkey is legal and you do not need a license.

Bad news;
You need a license or permit to DIG anywhere in the ground (this includes beaches). The law is ANYTHING UNDER the ground belongs to the state even if it’s down under your house. If you dig without permission and are caught you will be arrested and go to court and your detector confiscated.
Police normally arrest anyone found with a detector because it’s assumed they are digging or removing objects from under the ground especially if they have any kind of tool that could be used for digging but people are also arrested without any type of digging tools. Permits are rarely given except to archeologist or those working with them and virtually never to foreign nationals unless they are working with archeologist or on government sponsored digs. On the rare occasion that they are they have to be accompanied by an official which is costly so rarely happens outside of government sponsored digs.

The majority of people in Turkey that detect do dig illegally and go to extreme lengths to avoid being caught-night time and remote regions are where it is usually practiced with a team of ‘lookouts’ warning of possible approaching officials trying to catch them in the act.

M Scott, thanx for the great post. Ok, so you have friends there that sell detectors there eh? And you have friends THAT DETECT there too, eh? And detecting, in and of itself, is not illegal, presuming you don't "dig", eh?

Hmm, reminds me of a newbie who went in to San Francisco park's dept. to ask if he could detect in the parks. They said "yes, but you can't dig". He reported that on a CA forum and ....... we .... uh .... had to "enlighten" him about a few things. In fact, this is a very common answer you would get at a lot of parks in the USA "you can detect, but you can't dig", right? (we've seen this over and over and over again on forums). Yes, it's true that the REASON for the "no digging" is going to be different in Turkey (that the govt. owns things under the surface), verses here (that the don't want scars in the turf). But other than that, similar mandate.

How does someone do gardening or landscaping work over there, if digging is forbidden?

You say:

"Police normally arrest anyone found with a detector because it’s assumed they are digging or removing objects".

Well gee then, if they simply "arrest" you for "simply having a detector" (because it's assumed you *might* dig, etc...,) then how in the name of Pete can there be stores that sell them? I know you say the mere possession and use of a detector is not technically forbidden, right? But then you turn right around, in the same breath, and say "they normally arrest you" for simple possession and use, even in the absence of digging. Sounds like a contradiction to me. It's either legal, or it isn't, to have possession, and swing it around (as you say in your opening sentence of "good news"), or it's not.

I mean, let's be serious now M. Scott, this "normally arrest" statement: Is it on the caliber of what someone might equally say, about the "possession of a metal detector in a USA federal park"? You know the drill: you'll often here the same thing here: "if you even have a detector in your car while travelling, they will arrest you" . But oddly, when you ask around for if there were ever actually an incident of someone simply transporting a detector through a national park of "being arrested", no one seems to know of any such incidents. Yet from posts on the net, you'd think it was happening every day!! Thus for Turkey, do your friends really know of anyone who was arrested for simply having a detector, or simply swinging one (in the absence of digging)?

 

[M Scott @ FTP]

Tom,

These are the facts straight from Istanbul Turkey-I don’t know what else you need to realize you are wrong……..

Comparing your experiences on detecting rights, laws and digging in USA parks to other countries like Turkey is simply absurd.

I have been to Turkey and given seminars to many of the metal detector dealers there. When there, I asked people/customers to take me detecting and they said no because they didn’t want to risk getting me arrested.
I have talked to them recently to try and clear this up, and these are the answers they gave me-they are the largest multi brand distributor in Turkey so I will believe them before I believe the guy that compares park hunting rights in San Fran to hunting in Turkey- LOL.

There is a huge difference between having a detector in a car or shop and walking around a field or historical site with one and it’s the same in many countries throughout Europe. Greece for example it’s legal to sell and own detectors but some have been arrested for having a detector in their car and mud on their boots. It seems as though you have never left the safety of USA to detect yet are trying to convince people you are the leading authority on detecting in other countries which is an extremely irresponsible thing to do.
I am sorry but you simply don’t know what you are talking about regarding international detecting. I visited over 10 countries last year alone including Turkey on metal detecting related trips and will visit more this year, I detect in as many of them as is possible with people in the detecting industry. It’s very important to know the dos and don’ts when detecting abroad and irresponsible to just do it and ignorantly claim you couldn’t find any rules regarding it. I was detained in China a few years ago on a gold prospecting trip, and not for detecting but for simply being in an region of the country that is off limits to foreigners in general-If you try and search this fact on the internet you will have a hard time as there is little to no reference but its still illegal just to be there even with a valid passport and Visa, and I found this out the hard way and trust me ignorance to it was no excuse when interrogated by the Chinese military for hours on end. As a guest in other countries we simply don’t have the luxury of rights we have here in USA. I leave for detector training and rallies to Hungary, Czech, Bulgaria, Macedonia and UK for a 3 week trip later this month and can only count on the UK to dig some relics. You are unwilling to accept the facts so I am through trying to convince you that you are wrong and it’s blatantly obvious to me that you are.

Thanks and Dig Deep!

Mike

 

[RotZorn]

San Fran compared to Turkey...... Then immediately after....

Turkey compared to China

Fail

 

[M Scott @ FTP]

San Fran compared to Turkey...... Then immediately after....

Turkey compared to China

Fail

Ha! I see your point.
Although I failed, my point was you really need to ask for information abroad instead of just researching and that was my case in point.

 

[RotZorn]

Ha! I see your point.
Although I failed, my point was you really need to ask for information abroad instead of just researching and that was my case in point.

I do respect the fact that you are at least trying to provide facts about the topic at hand. I mean no offense in saying this but it's hard to verify it either way?!?!

But.... That being said your post is fresh, and a far cry from a few pages ago when all we were getting was -

"Don't do it, it's an Islamic country! You'll be in great danger and be killed or put in a Turkish prison"

Most of this probably based on the fact that when people look at the map, they see that it borders Iraq. By contrast among all the other babblers - Your post was excellently composed sir!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

M-scott, no, your words do not fall on deaf ears. I just ask questions and compare, because ...... you have to admit, there's a LOT of places where we are told "you'll be arrested", or "it's illegal", that are just plainly not the case. Right? I'm sure you've seen that on forums too. And how do the rumors that "you'll be arrested" and "it's off-limits" get started then ?

But no, your words are very informative, and I'm not disputing what those customers of yours, (who .... oddly .... detect there in Turkey) say. If they say "it's illegal", yet you go there to train them to do "that which is illegal", fine then. So be it. It's illegal, but (routinelly?) done?

Oh, and "historical sites" was/is hardly disputed. OF COURSE no one's going to risk detecting a "historical site" in any country (we all stay away from sensitive historic monuments afterall). I would venture a guess that those people detecting there, only-need-to-do what British hunters do: any random furroughed field. Because in a country that old (as in the UK), simply hunting random furroughed fields (particularly where old cross-roads and outposts were, etc...) is all they need to do.

 

[-Taz-]

Some people are just ignorant about our diverse world, and how it works, Scott and can´t contemplate anything further away than their back yard. Its just the way it is and no need to waste time on

I will however try to check this out more closely by submitting an application for a license to dig. It will most likely not get me anywhere, but got to try since I have an holiday apartment in Turkey. With a license I could have a lot of extra fun, and even bring a long some detecting buddies (if they can get licenses to)

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Some people are just ignorant about our diverse world, and how it works, Scott and can´t contemplate anything further away than their back yard. Its just the way it is and no need to waste time on

I will however try to check this out more closely by submitting an application for a license to dig. It will most likely not get me anywhere, but got to try since I have an holiday apartment in Turkey. With a license I could have a lot of extra fun, and even bring a long some detecting buddies (if they can get licenses to)

as far as people's perceptions of the diverse world, it's funny how westerners sometimes have an "image" of 3rd world countries, or other cultures, that "certain doom awaits" you. Why? Because they watched Lawrence of Arabia movies, etc...

When I got ready to travel to Mexico to detect for example, certain well-meaning persons in my club gave me dire warnings of muggings, corruption, mexican jails certain to await me, don't drink the water, etc... But on the contrary, some of the nicest people I have ever met were there, and never got rolled in any alleys, etc...

 

[cudamark]

I think in the discussions here, that there is some confusion in what is legal, what is possible, and what is likely. Just because it's legal (or not) doesn't mean there are no problems possible. Even though we have little corruption in our police departments, it's rampant in other countries. Tom, your example of "no problems" while travelling in Mexico and detecting to your hearts content, is encouraging but not everyone's experience. Living a half hour from the border myself, I'd love to hunt down there on a regular basis, but I don't. Why? I've had too many friends visit me with dreams of doing the same that have turned into nightmares. You don't have to be doing anything wrong down there to have the police (or federales) threaten to arrest you. If you've been stopped for a bogus traffic violation, you know the drill. You better have some green portraits of dead presidents to donate or you're going to have a ride down to the police station where you're in for a long day. You're still going to pay a fine and you may or may not get your property back depending on what they think it's worth and what your attitude is. It's illegal for them to take bribes but it happens as if it is. They know you don't want to go to their jail, so they can get away with it and supplement their meager salary at the same time. I admit, the detecting problems in Mexico I know about are few but they're enough to keep me from risking my money and equipment unless I have a local who knows the ropes and speaks the language fluently to run interference. There still would probably be bribes involved to keep everyone happy. Now if you're going to Cozemel or Puerta Villarta and want to hunt the beaches, I haven't heard of any problem doing that, but inland is where it gets dicey. The government doesn't want any bad scenes a the beach resorts for tourism reasons but other areas are up to the locals to enforce. I guess what it boils down to is, do you feel lucky and are you willing to go through the consequences if you're not?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

well then let's just keep this simple then: It's only safe and legal to detect in either a) the USA, or b) Britain. In all other areas, it's like a scene straight out of raiders of the lost ark. Hey, and they speak English in both britain and the usa too.

 

[cudamark]

It's not always safe and legal here either! But at least we know the language and have a decent understanding of what the crimes and punishment should be and some recourse if we think we were wronged. I'm sure there are other countries that tolerate metal detecting but that's where local knowledge is key. I would hope we can get the straight scoop here on Tnet from our fellow members from around the world. Their experiences and local knowledge are invaluable to those of us who like to travel with our detectors.