TVAs water for you doubters (Tom/CA, you asked for examples)

[ChampFerguson/TN]

TVA's water for you doubters (Tom/CA, you asked for examples)

Men Get Jail Term For Digging Up Civil War Artifacts - WDEF News 12 watch the short video at the link if you have a moment.

TVA land, and they are serious Ahats about "THEIR" land and "THEIR" water. They like to tell the media about violations in their parks, but in reality apply the same standards to any lands/water that they control. And TVA violations don't go to local courts, they go to Big Boy Federal Court. As in, you serve the entire time unless you get a presidential pardon. (correct me if I'm wrong on that one, you legal types)

I don't like it either, but some of you have doubted how serious it can get. Yes, these 2 morons were extreme cases in what they did, but TVA is serious about any breach of their no metal detecting policy and are quick to tell you that.

Here's the text in case the link dies:


"Chattanooga (WDEF) - Federal Judge Curtis Collier sentenced two East Tennessee men to jail time for digging up Civil War artifacts.

39-year old Kenneth Fagin, Jr. from South Pittsburg and 61-year old Terry Tate from Manchester will serve 30 months in federal prison.

They were convicted of illegal archaeological excavation on federal property.

They pleaded guilty to the charges in February.

The case covers four years of digs.

The pair excavated artifacts from the bottom of Fort McCook at Battle Creek.

The site is on TVA property next to the South Pittsburg Municipal Park.

The got artillery rounds called Hotchkiss shells.

In 2009, Fagin and Tate dug up Civil War era U-rails from public lands in Bridgeport, Alabama.

Then in 2010, they transported and delivered a counterfeit “Sherman Bow-Tie” that was made from Civil War era U-rails that they excavated from public lands in Bridgeport, Alabama.

Fagin also excavated Civil War era artifacts from Shiloh National Military Park, including a .57 cal. three-ring rifle bullet; five fired three-ring rifle bullets and Schenkl artillery shell fragments."

 

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[Ryano]

I heard a story of a not too bright fellow at Harrison Bay State Park (North of Chattanooga/Harrison TN area) who uncovered pottery fragments of Indian origin while messing about in the woods. The story goes he put them in a brown paper lunch sack and was stopped by the local Ranger who asked about the contents of the bag. Man responds, "just some bits and pieces". He was held for hours and hours until they determined he wasn't "treasure/artifact hunting" and warned him off with threats of multiple felonies if he was caught carrying around stuff he's dug up on park property again.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

champ-ferguson, I am only just now seeing this post. You buried it one of the state-specific pages.

And now the link you provide isn't working. So you got a different link ? I'll take a look.

I have a suspicion that this will fall under the category of "guys who could have known better". Ie.: with an iota of research . Such that they were asking for trouble. And that this is not something analogous to innocuous parks.

I too have some links to md'rs who got "roughed up". But when you look deeper, it's invariably someone sneaking around at a site on purpose. Or someone who, with a hair of research, could have known to avoid such legal issues. Or even if someone who TRULY didn't know any better, and TRULY thought "this seems innocuous", then you gotta realize something:

There will ALWAYS be rogue fluke examples of people getting roughed up, by over-zealous cops, for a LOT of things. I even heard of a guy who got a ticket for eating a hamburger while driving. The cop called it "distracted driving". Ok, let's take a show of hands here: Who eats and drives at the same time ? Are you going to stop now ?

 

[Tnmountains]

Old post and just saw this. We saw the guys diving at the mouth of the creek at the river. They had an old house boat. They were well known in that community but not to me. They had out dive flags and told me they had a guy in the water. The history states the fort was being over run and the shells were dumped into the creek. I was out fishing when I stopped and spoke with them. They had told me of another site they had dug up on private land in the cove and done well with the finds. The landowner was a friend of mine and said they left holes everywhere. I had seeked permission on the site before but was turned down as he wanted to hunt it one day. These guys did know what they were doing and if not mistaken even sold the relics as coming off Battle Creek. They dug with out permission and advertised it. Any where in that area you have to have landowners permission and better have their name and number in your phone. It is a good idea to get permission again every year as peoples attitudes change. These guys gave everyone a black eye who tries to get permission and do their hunts proper.

 

[Davers]

I recall reading this before , maybe at my Club.

Those guys are just ignorant , Cali's , Greedy .

Complete Shells are Nice, but that's Mucho time for shell frags & Minnies.

I'm sure they got a-lot more tho. (relics)

 

[Tnmountains]

Oh yeah they said in the paper that they had permission to hunt other places in the future. This is what happens when a hobby becomes an obsession. Trick is have many hobbies in life. My opinion.

 

[Davers]

Oh yeah they said in the paper that they had permission to hunt other places in the future. This is what happens when a hobby becomes an obsession. Trick is have many hobbies in life. My opinion.

Yes Sir.
I have a couple other hobbies , Shooting / Guns , Coin collecting .

It can def, be an obsession especially when yr finding stuff. Kinda like 'Gold fever'.

Also with the lack of productive sites , 'when I hunt 8 hours for, Shot Gun Brass (that's been dug before & dropped again) & dig 1 fired 3 Ringer, or a couple (Maybe CW) 31/32 Caliber round balls'. Or find nothing but trash.

I like to say 'ONLY SAYING' LOL
"It will drive you to the Mountain" Meaning Kennessaw Mountain.

That said . I do appreciate every Ball & fired Minnie that I dig.

You Know Hunting CW even back in 1997-2000 was much more productive, & I thought everything was hunted out then.

As they say knowing now what I did not know then ; my pretty nice relic Collection would be much nicer , looking back to places where Sweet 'Confederate & Union Relics were found "After 2000" that are now developed & long gone.

GL TM

 

[Ryano]

I know it's an old post but I don't know how relaxed or lenient the rangers are "Out West" where Tom of CA is, but here on the east coast the Park Rangers take the rules seriously and to the letter of the law. Especially if the Park or Area has a known archaeological site or significance. You don't want to be caught swinging the MD or have one poking out the end of your backpack when a Tennessee Park Ranger waves

 

[Honest Samuel]

Professor Tom, your friends miss you. Come back soon.