✅ SOLVED Unfired Indian Wars Cartridge??? Any help would be great!!!

tokens70 · Feb 1, 2015

Another bullet I.D. needed :laughing7:

Unfired, possibly .44 to .45 cal. The lead itself looks to be similar to a 45-70 with the wide rings :icon_scratch:

Kind of small....reminds me of a .44 mag. cartridge in size. I have other empties of this same casing with a firing pin dent right in the center...no primer...and obviously not an early rimfire. Also has factory made rings around the base that do not go all the way around. the spent casings I have of the same cartridge also have the rings. would really like to find out what this bullet is 8-)

Too bad the bullet itself is melted :tongue3:

Thanks for any help...Chris

tamrock · Feb 2, 2015

Only a guess, but I'm thinking its a .45 rimfire. Maybe one of these 3. I can't say if all had that ridge on them like yours.

Tedyoh · Feb 2, 2015

It could possibly be a 50-70, I found one similar to yours, mine was ID'd by a few of the best on TN (see link for more info)

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/w...k-powder-rim-fire-cartridge-id-date-help.html

tokens70 · Feb 2, 2015

I do appreciate the help guys :thumbsup:

It is definitely very similar in style to the 50-70, but there is no way it could be .50 caliber...too small. Also, if you look at the rim on mine, it barely exists compared to the examples in the bullet link that Tedyoh posted. The casing itself also only measures about 1-5/16" in length

I do have some spent casings from the same site that I believe are definitely 50-70's from the Frankford arsenal,even with the headstamps...F-C-8-79 and F-?-?-78...cannot read the other letter & number. The two spent casings I just mentioned, measure right at 2-1/8" in length :icon_thumright:

tokens70 · Feb 2, 2015

BosnMate · Feb 2, 2015

It's an inside primed cartridge, probably a .45 Colt. It was just a few years after the model 1873 .45 Colt single action army was adopted that the Army also adopted the Schofield Smith
and Wesson in .45 caliber. That cartridge had a shorter case, so instead of loading two types of 45 pistol cartridges, Frankford Arsenal loaded them all in the shorter Schofield length
case. Without measurements, my guess is you have a Bennet Primed .45 Schofield. I can't see a head stamp in your photo, so that would date the cartridge before 1877 or 78, I
can't remember for sure.

BosnMate · Feb 2, 2015

This shows how the crimp holds the inside primer in place. The cartridge is center fire, and I just looked it up, and they started using head-stamps in 1877.
So your cartridge is the Smith and Wesson, it dates between 1875 and 1877. The cartridges were still not interchangeable because the Schofield had a larger rim. I just found that
out, and here is what Wikipedia has to say about it.

"Many reports indicate that while the .45 S&W cartridge could be used in a gun chambered for the .45 Colt, not every chamber in the gun could be loaded at the same time. Because of the larger diameter rim (.522 inches) on the S&W cartridge, the rims would sometimes interfere with each other when attempting to load every chamber of a .45 Colt chambered revolver. Current production .45 S&W cases have a head diameter larger than .45 Colt but smaller than the originals to circumvent this problem on the Colt Single Action Army revolver.

Because of this, the Frankford Arsenal produced the .45 M1877 Military Ball Cartridge which was identical to the S&W cartridge but had a slightly smaller rim diameter of .512 inches (identical to the rim of the .45 Colt cartridge) which could be used in either the Colt or the S&W revolvers. Production of the .45 Colt cartridge was then discontinued by the Frankford Arsenal with the .45 M1877 ball revolver cartridge being adopted as the only .45 revolver cartridge issued from then on.
In the early 1880s the Benet (inside) cartridge primer was retired and the modern Boxer type (externally visible) primer was adopted for all future military production of revolver ammunition."

So if the rim on yours is .512 and there is no headstamp, the cartridge was loaded in 1877.