Us couple could face trial in France over stone shipwreck gold

[pepperj]

US couple could face trial in France over stolen shipwreck gold | France | The Guardian https://share.google/he9NQdbsDL1vofOMB

 

[Crow]

Michel L’Hour strikes again with his anti treasure hunter crusade.

The head of France’s underwater archaeology department is a zealot, Michel L’Hour has been after my ass for years. He is obsessed in hunting down people like me. They had their chance in 2015. I was willing to make a deal. They broke their word every time. And they cannot prosecute me as it would expose a National embarrassment to French pride.

It is fascinating thing about the French people they would rather destroy themselves than take a hit to national pride.

Crow

 

[Red_desert]

Michel L’Hour strikes again with his anti treasure hunter crusade.

The head of France’s underwater archaeology department is a zealot, Michel L’Hour has been after my ass for years. He is obsessed in hunting down people like me. They had their chance in 2015. I was willing to make a deal. They broke their word every time. And they cannot prosecute me as it would expose a National embarrassment to French pride.

It is fascinating thing about the French people they would rather destroy themselves than take a hit to national pride.

Crow

Amazing

 

[Darren in NC]

Michel L’Hour strikes again with his anti treasure hunter crusade.

The head of France’s underwater archaeology department is a zealot, Michel L’Hour has been after my ass for years. He is obsessed in hunting down people like me. They had their chance in 2015. I was willing to make a deal. They broke their word every time. And they cannot prosecute me as it would expose a National embarrassment to French pride.

It is fascinating thing about the French people they would rather destroy themselves than take a hit to national pride.

Crow

What do you mean he's been after you, Crow? Related to this vessel or another story? Can you share more detail without complete embarrassment to the French?

 

[Crow]

Gidday Darren

The fact of the matter is all of us here on TNET land or sea are seen as looters and despoilers of history according to Michel L’Hour.

UNESCO

He is a very smart man, but a very self righteous man. knowledgeable but an activist against and commercial exploitation of shipwrecks or artifacts on land. He is the big true believer. He was product of system that never had to face the economic realities. A public servant paid by state and has never face economic realities of his endeavors. { the tax payer )

Michel L’Hour is an underwater archaeologist and Honorary General Curator of Heritage. Initially trained in terrestrial excavations, in 1979 he turned his attention to the archaeology of submerged worlds, and in 1982 he joined the French Ministry of Culture’s Department of Subaquatic and Underwater Archaeological Research (DRASSM), where he was entrusted with the scientific and administrative management of all of France’s western coastlines and non-metropolitan marine areas. Appointed Director of the DRASSM in 2006, he held this position until 2021.

Over the course of his career, he has carried out surveys and/or directed the excavation of a large number of underwater wrecks both in France and abroad, including the wreck of an Asian merchant ship lost in the fifteenth century in the waters of the Sultanate of Oman. in the waters of the Sultanate of Brunei (island of Borneo), the wrecks of several ships of the line lost after the Battle of La Hougue in 1692, and the wrecks of two privateers lost in 1704 and 1749 respectively in the Bay of Saint-Malo, the wrecks of the Boussole and the Astrolabe, exploration vessels belonging to the Count of La Pérouse that sank in 1788 in the Solomon Islands, the wreck of the royal vessel the Lune (1664, Toulon Bay) and the wreck of the battleship Danton sunk in 1917 in waters 1025 m deep off Sardinia. He has also led several missions to foreign countries on behalf of the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs and UNESCO.

A member of the Scientific and Technical Advisory Board of the 2001 UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage from 2013 to 2021, he chaired this advisory body in 2014 and 2015. A specialist in the illicit trafficking of underwater cultural property, he has served as an expert on the International Observatory on the Illicit Traffic of Cultural Property (ICOM), and is a regular contributor to national and international police organizations such as Judicial Customs and Interpol.

Michel L’Hour is a zealot in chasing down past looters of cultural heritage. Even back dating before the laws was even made against salvage operations. It is an arrogant self righteous that every thing belongs as culture patrimony. He has deep connection with UNESCO. If he had his way every country would sign up to UNESCO. Any artifact over 75 years old belongs to the state or to the country the artifact belongs. So this is why we have elderly couple in their 90s dragged through the courts to be made an Public example of.

As you are well aware there are things that can be said publicly. And other things that cannot be said . Every time they try to nab this old black bird raggedy old Crow with half feathers falling out all they get is a pesky black feather. It is my get out jail card. What I can say it not directly connected to the above shipwreck. But hugely embarrassing. Yet ironic some with in the establishment that employs him they are biggest looters and secret deal makers of all.

Such hypocrisy. And they know it.

Crow

 

[Red_desert]

Gidday Darren

The fact of the matter is all of us here on TNET land or sea are seen as looters and despoilers of history according to Michel L’Hour.

UNESCO

He is a very smart man, but a very self righteous man. knowledgeable but an activist against and commercial exploitation of shipwrecks or artifacts on land. He is the big true believer. He was product of system that never had to face the economic realities. A public servant paid by state and has never face economic realities of his endeavors. { the tax payer )

Michel L’Hour is an underwater archaeologist and Honorary General Curator of Heritage. Initially trained in terrestrial excavations, in 1979 he turned his attention to the archaeology of submerged worlds, and in 1982 he joined the French Ministry of Culture’s Department of Subaquatic and Underwater Archaeological Research (DRASSM), where he was entrusted with the scientific and administrative management of all of France’s western coastlines and non-metropolitan marine areas. Appointed Director of the DRASSM in 2006, he held this position until 2021.

Over the course of his career, he has carried out surveys and/or directed the excavation of a large number of underwater wrecks both in France and abroad, including the wreck of an Asian merchant ship lost in the fifteenth century in the waters of the Sultanate of Oman. in the waters of the Sultanate of Brunei (island of Borneo), the wrecks of several ships of the line lost after the Battle of La Hougue in 1692, and the wrecks of two privateers lost in 1704 and 1749 respectively in the Bay of Saint-Malo, the wrecks of the Boussole and the Astrolabe, exploration vessels belonging to the Count of La Pérouse that sank in 1788 in the Solomon Islands, the wreck of the royal vessel the Lune (1664, Toulon Bay) and the wreck of the battleship Danton sunk in 1917 in waters 1025 m deep off Sardinia. He has also led several missions to foreign countries on behalf of the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs and UNESCO.

A member of the Scientific and Technical Advisory Board of the 2001 UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage from 2013 to 2021, he chaired this advisory body in 2014 and 2015. A specialist in the illicit trafficking of underwater cultural property, he has served as an expert on the International Observatory on the Illicit Traffic of Cultural Property (ICOM), and is a regular contributor to national and international police organizations such as Judicial Customs and Interpol.

Michel L’Hour is a zealot in chasing down past looters of cultural heritage. Even back dating before the laws was even made against salvage operations. It is an arrogant self righteous that every thing belongs as culture patrimony. He has deep connection with UNESCO. If he had his way every country would sign up to UNESCO. Any artifact over 75 years old belongs to the state or to the country the artifact belongs. So this is why we have elderly couple in their 90s dragged through the courts to be made an Public example of.

As you are well aware there are things that can be said publicly. And other things that cannot be said . Every time they try to nab this old black bird raggedy old Crow with half feathers falling out all they get is a pesky black feather. It is my get out jail card. What I can say it not directly connected to the above shipwreck. But hugely embarrassing. Yet ironic some with in the establishment that employs him they are biggest looters and secret deal makers of all.

Such hypocrisy. And they know it.

Crow

Trouble in paradise

 

[pepperj]

Gidday Darren

The fact of the matter is all of us here on TNET land or sea are seen as looters and despoilers of history according to Michel L’Hour.

UNESCO

He is a very smart man, but a very self righteous man. knowledgeable but an activist against and commercial exploitation of shipwrecks or artifacts on land. He is the big true believer. He was product of system that never had to face the economic realities. A public servant paid by state and has never face economic realities of his endeavors. { the tax payer )

Michel L’Hour is an underwater archaeologist and Honorary General Curator of Heritage. Initially trained in terrestrial excavations, in 1979 he turned his attention to the archaeology of submerged worlds, and in 1982 he joined the French Ministry of Culture’s Department of Subaquatic and Underwater Archaeological Research (DRASSM), where he was entrusted with the scientific and administrative management of all of France’s western coastlines and non-metropolitan marine areas. Appointed Director of the DRASSM in 2006, he held this position until 2021.

Over the course of his career, he has carried out surveys and/or directed the excavation of a large number of underwater wrecks both in France and abroad, including the wreck of an Asian merchant ship lost in the fifteenth century in the waters of the Sultanate of Oman. in the waters of the Sultanate of Brunei (island of Borneo), the wrecks of several ships of the line lost after the Battle of La Hougue in 1692, and the wrecks of two privateers lost in 1704 and 1749 respectively in the Bay of Saint-Malo, the wrecks of the Boussole and the Astrolabe, exploration vessels belonging to the Count of La Pérouse that sank in 1788 in the Solomon Islands, the wreck of the royal vessel the Lune (1664, Toulon Bay) and the wreck of the battleship Danton sunk in 1917 in waters 1025 m deep off Sardinia. He has also led several missions to foreign countries on behalf of the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs and UNESCO.

A member of the Scientific and Technical Advisory Board of the 2001 UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage from 2013 to 2021, he chaired this advisory body in 2014 and 2015. A specialist in the illicit trafficking of underwater cultural property, he has served as an expert on the International Observatory on the Illicit Traffic of Cultural Property (ICOM), and is a regular contributor to national and international police organizations such as Judicial Customs and Interpol.

Michel L’Hour is a zealot in chasing down past looters of cultural heritage. Even back dating before the laws was even made against salvage operations. It is an arrogant self righteous that every thing belongs as culture patrimony. He has deep connection with UNESCO. If he had his way every country would sign up to UNESCO. Any artifact over 75 years old belongs to the state or to the country the artifact belongs. So this is why we have elderly couple in their 90s dragged through the courts to be made an Public example of.

As you are well aware there are things that can be said publicly. And other things that cannot be said . Every time they try to nab this old black bird raggedy old Crow with half feathers falling out all they get is a pesky black feather. It is my get out jail card. What I can say it not directly connected to the above shipwreck. But hugely embarrassing. Yet ironic some with in the establishment that employs him they are biggest looters and secret deal makers of all.

Such hypocrisy. And they know it.

Crow

Furthermore, States Parties must comply with the Rules concerning activities directed at underwater cultural heritage, which are annexed to the Convention. They must respect its principles and adapt their national law accordingly.

Second, States will benefit from the regime of international cooperation for sunken archaeological sites outside the territorial sea. States parties are obliged to take legal measures for the protection of sunken sites from unwanted interference by their own vessels and nationals, to inform other states of discoveries and activities concerning such sites, and to cooperate in their protection. They will benefit reciprocally from the measures taken by other States Parties. This system will make it easier to take joint and effective action against treasure hunting and looting outside the national jurisdiction of a state.

Ratification of the 2001 Convention | UNESCO https://share.google/bg0Z1Xf0zrTeGUvOP

The part:
"They will benefit reciprocally from the measures taken by other States Parties".

Does that mean:
Let's share the confiscated bounty between the members?

 

[Darren in NC]

"Michel L’Hour is a zealot in chasing down past looters of cultural heritage. Even back dating before the laws was even made against salvage operations."

Thanks, Crow. This was the first observation I made when I read the article. I thought this couple's exploits dated before salvage law had been upended, though it did say they continued on for decades.

 

[Crow]

There is lot hypocrisy from the belief in cultural patrimony. The treasure from Afghanistan, specifically the Bactrian gold, is primarily associated with the archaeological site of Tillya Tepe in northern Afghanistan. This treasure was discovered in 1978 and 1979 within six burial mounds, containing over 20,000 gold and precious metal artifacts. The site is located near Sheberghan, in Jowzjan province, and is known as "Hill of Gold. was given back to the Taliban. Ask yourself where is the gold now?

What people many do not understand all artifacts are costed and valued in museums of countries. Just like the artworks in the national galleries that is collateral. When a county needs an extra loan from reserve bank is is added to national value of assets in the country. property, gold, infrastructure extra comes into equation. Government sell of community assets under veil of privatization. generally when there short of cash especially when they blown their budget by bad management. All artifacts have value thus they are in essence collateral. They are pawned as collateral for loans. The State does and it not mater what country we live in they are in essence Mafia economies. Does not matter Capitalist, Communist, dictatorship they play by the same playbook. They all muscled in on the treasure hunting game.

After WW2 Countries began to see value in historic artifacts even if it sat rotting away grinding into oblivion on the sea floor. They began to see artifact and treasure as monetary value under the pretense of cultural assets as collateral. So began a whole industry of virtue signaling that these artifacts are part of the common good. ( Some one with out place to live. or cannot afford to see a doctor would beg to differ) Yet these items cost huge amount of money to sit in warehouse or in a museum being curated, secured never seeing the light of day. under the pretense of cultural patrimony. Important Items I have not problems. I like museums but to have warehouses full item that never see the light of day is travesty.

Yet how many museums have artifacts looted from other counties? When archeologist digs up a grave and removes artifacts to a museum. And that artifact is put in museum becomes valued as asset to become commodity. Is it not looting? And the government that owns the museum pawns the artifacts as collateral is not being treated like commodity? People like Michel L’Hour do not see that. And yet to them a private commercial ventures is immoral. That a government could have option to catalog all artifacts than then buy importance pieces. and lesser pieces sold on the open market? But then again if the trade was legal the value of artifacts would fall and government could not borrow as much.

So you can see anyone outside of establishment is competitor and threat. Because artifacts have value as collateral. The cost to tax payer is enormous. Around the world we have air conditioned wear houses full of broken pottery and yet we have women and children sleeping rough in the streets. Wouldn't the money be better spent elsewhere? When a museum returns artifact back to a country it was looted from as virtual signaling to show some how they are doing a such good thing. No that is not what really is happening?They are balancing the books in the cost of keeping artifact that has become liability in managing rising cost in storing and securing such item. So its better to return the asset back to original country to save on costs and tell everyone how wonderful they are.

It almost a dirty word these days I am a capitalist and realist. Let the free market control artifacts. Oh wait! If that happened the value of artifacts they have pawned in their museums goes down in value. And they will not let happen will they!

Crow

 

[Red_desert]

There is lot hypocrisy from the belief in cultural patrimony. The treasure from Afghanistan, specifically the Bactrian gold, is primarily associated with the archaeological site of Tillya Tepe in northern Afghanistan. This treasure was discovered in 1978 and 1979 within six burial mounds, containing over 20,000 gold and precious metal artifacts. The site is located near Sheberghan, in Jowzjan province, and is known as "Hill of Gold. was given back to the Taliban. Ask yourself where is the gold now?

What people many do not understand all artifacts are costed and valued in museums of countries. Just like the artworks in the national galleries that is collateral. When a county needs an extra loan from reserve bank is is added to national value of assets in the country. property, gold, infrastructure extra comes into equation. Government sell of community assets under veil of privatization. generally when there short of cash especially when they blown their budget by bad management. All artifacts have value thus they are in essence collateral. They are pawned as collateral for loans. The State does and it not mater what country we live in they are in essence Mafia economies. Does not matter Capitalist, Communist, dictatorship they play by the same playbook. They all muscled in on the treasure hunting game.

After WW2 Countries began to see value in historic artifacts even if it sat rotting away grinding into oblivion on the sea floor. They began to see artifact and treasure as monetary value under the pretense of cultural assets as collateral. So began a whole industry of virtue signaling that these artifacts are part of the common good. ( Some one with out place to live. or cannot afford to see a doctor would beg to differ) Yet these items cost huge amount of money to sit in warehouse or in a museum being curated, secured never seeing the light of day. under the pretense of cultural patrimony. Important Items I have not problems. I like museums but to have warehouses full item that never see the light of day is travesty.

Yet how many museums have artifacts looted from other counties? When archeologist digs up a grave and removes artifacts to a museum. And that artifact is put in museum becomes valued as asset to become commodity. Is it not looting? And the government that owns the museum pawns the artifacts as collateral is not being treated like commodity? People like Michel L’Hour do not see that. And yet to them a private commercial ventures is immoral. That a government could have option to catalog all artifacts than then buy importance pieces. and lesser pieces sold on the open market? But then again if the trade was legal the value of artifacts would fall and government could not borrow as much.

So you can see anyone outside of establishment is competitor and threat. Because artifacts have value as collateral. The cost to tax payer is enormous. Around the world we have air conditioned wear houses full of broken pottery and yet we have women and children sleeping rough in the streets. Wouldn't the money be better spent elsewhere? When a museum returns artifact back to a country it was looted from as virtual signaling to show some how they are doing a such good thing. No that is not what really is happening?They are balancing the books in the cost of keeping artifact that has become liability in managing rising cost in storing and securing such item. So its better to return the asset back to original country to save on costs and tell everyone how wonderful they are.

It almost a dirty word these days I am a capitalist and realist. Let the free market control artifacts. Oh wait! If that happened the value of artifacts they have pawned in their museums goes down in value. And they will not let happen will they!

Crow

Globalist agenda... they want more control over everything and any of the people living on their planet as if it is theirs' to own.