VERT Interesting Article for ALL

[ScubaDetector]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ow-your-rights-when-stopped-police/101562550/

Some on here condemn my interaction with the police. Some on here applaud it. To me it doesn't matter. What does matter is our rights as citizens and how far some officers go to trample on our rights.

As per the article, SOME cops are overzealous and demand you comply or else. Intimidation is the best way to describe it. The officers that tried to intimidate me last year and failed gave me three citations. Which also failed because they were all dismissed. In fact. EVERY citation I have received while diving and detedting has been dismissed. 6 so far.

One day I might go to jail with my metal detector and scuba gear. However, the department that tries that will ultimately lose in court. We have rights. Until all are taken away, NO officer has the right to make their own laws and push anyone around. There will be a lot more lawsuits against officers to handle that kind of treatment.

I don't encourage confrontation. However I am not one to be shoved around just because someone has a badge and gun and supposed authority.

I am not a cop hater. They have a job to do. However, hassling someone metal detecting and minding their own business, goes a bit beyond what they are out there for.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

scuba, your stories/encounters on this topic are the stuff of legend. However, regarding an article such as this, as-it-concerns md'ing, there is one BIG THING that has to be kept in mind: All such "know your rights" type notions are fine and dandy WHEN YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. So for example, on a few of your stories, you knew various diving laws, and therefore "stood up for your rights" when a barney-fife arbitrarily tried to say "you can't do that". That's fine.

But I would be hesitant to throw this out there for the average md'r, as it concerns all the places we tend to hunt. Because, let's be brutally honest: Even though there might not be a specific "no md'ing" law or rule, and thus an md'r , after reading your article, might think "I'm not budging", yet .... let's be honest: This could just open up a can of worms on ancillary verbiage that *could* apply. Oh sure, it's a semantics debate. And oh sure, I don't think I'm "altering" or "defacing" (when I leave no trace). But the list is endless. What about prohibitions against "harvest /remove / take" ? Or lost & found laws ? Or cultural heritage issues ? If you and I make enough stink (to "stand up for our rights") it might just turn out to be cases where you'd have been better off "giving lip service" to lone fluke encounters (and just avoid that singular individual in the future).

Thus while it's true there's over-zealous cops that, yes, you can indeed prevail over (and yes, shouldn't get "walked-on"), but sometimes you/I need to "pick our battles". And if there's any ambiguity of "catch-all" language, I'm not so sure I want to start "flaunting my rights".

We are in an odd-ball hobby after all, that *does* have connotations. And sometimes the LESS attention is better, not the MORE attention. I say this with all due respect, as we all love your posts and stories !

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

'Know your rights' and 'Choose your battles'. I agree with both the above posts.

I am also a STRONG supporter of mandatory law enforcement body cams for all uniformed officers. They protect both sides.

 

[RustyGold]

Well said Tom! I would rather "know my rights" than fight for them from a jail cell.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... than fight for them from a jail cell.

No one's "going to jail" for md'ing. I defy anyone to cite me an incident of jail for md'ing. If any such incident can be cited, it will invariably be someone night-sneaking obvious historic sensitive monuments. Or someone who couldn't take a warning, etc....

 

[ScubaDetector]

scuba, your stories/encounters on this topic are the stuff of legend. However, regarding an article such as this, as-it-concerns md'ing, there is one BIG THING that has to be kept in mind: All such "know your rights" type notions are fine and dandy WHEN YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. So for example, on a few of your stories, you knew various diving laws, and therefore "stood up for your rights" when a barney-fife arbitrarily tried to say "you can't do that". That's fine.

But I would be hesitant to throw this out there for the average md'r, as it concerns all the places we tend to hunt. Because, let's be brutally honest: Even though there might not be a specific "no md'ing" law or rule, and thus an md'r , after reading your article, might think "I'm not budging", yet .... let's be honest: This could just open up a can of worms on ancillary verbiage that *could* apply. Oh sure, it's a semantics debate. And oh sure, I don't think I'm "altering" or "defacing" (when I leave no trace). But the list is endless. What about prohibitions against "harvest /remove / take" ? Or lost & found laws ? Or cultural heritage issues ? If you and I make enough stink (to "stand up for our rights") it might just turn out to be cases where you'd have been better off "giving lip service" to lone fluke encounters (and just avoid that singular individual in the future).

Thus while it's true there's over-zealous cops that, yes, you can indeed prevail over (and yes, shouldn't get "walked-on"), but sometimes you/I need to "pick our battles". And if there's any ambiguity of "catch-all" language, I'm not so sure I want to start "flaunting my rights".

We are in an odd-ball hobby after all, that *does* have connotations. And sometimes the LESS attention is better, not the MORE attention. I say this with all due respect, as we all love your posts and stories !

Tom, We might not agree on everything but we do have one thing in common. Respect. I respect your views and you mine. We don't always agree but we don't try to cram our views down each others throats. Some will agree with you and some with me. That isn't the issue. We both enjoy the hobby and we both do what we feel is right. I might change some of the ways I handle things because of your point of view and maybe you will try one of my tactics!! LOL and probably not.

Each of us does what we feel is right. And we should be able to do that without butting heads with each other.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Stick up for your rights, but remember that the cops will win in the end. Watch a few episodes of "The First 48" and you will see their modus operandi. Suspect someone of a crime? Lie your butt off and tell them you have a case, witnesses, video and so on. Anything to get a conviction is their rule of thumb.

My encounter with a RI State Trooper was a perfect example. He told me I couldn't "dig holes" on the field. I told him it was a public land trust, which it is. He said it wasn't and to move on. He was either very dense or lying his butt off. Obviously, he'll win in the end because he can hide behind his badge and make up anything he wants to cause me grief. As they say, power corrupts...

 

[Msbeepbeep]

That's why i like to detect early Sunday mornings....fewer people fewer problems.
I do have to say the majority of police i have encountered i've had very few problems with. They were more curious about the detector & what it finds.
But as expressed earlier each situation is different.


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[Berton]

Thank you that you raised this topic.

 

[ScubaDetector]

That's why i like to detect early Sunday mornings....fewer people fewer problems.
I do have to say the majority of police i have encountered i've had very few problems with. They were more curious about the detector & what it finds.
But as expressed earlier each situation is different.


Sent from my VS810PP using Tapatalk

I have had plenty of wonderful experience with officers. More positive ones than not. It is the officers that are wrong and refuse to admit it that seem to be problem children. When you demand a citation and they don't want to give you one is a good example. They know they are wrong but want to make some homeowners happy. They just want me to go away peacefully. No can do.

No cop can make up a law or enforce a law that isn't out there. Some will try though.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... but want to make some homeowners happy. They just want me to go away peacefully. No can do. ....

Interesting. IF YOU KNOW that an officer is simply responding to a call-out from a busy-body lookie-lou homeowner, and as you say, you know that you're not doing anything wrong, ... why not just give lip service and come back later when said-lookie-lou-homeowner isn't there ? (well ...at least so far as park hunting goes. I realize scuba is a bit more non-transitory with boats and such).

...No cop can make up a law or enforce a law that isn't out there. Some will try though.

Perhaps for your fabled stories of getting roughed up when diving . But when it comes to park turf, I'd be a little more hesitant to ask for tickets or stand defiant. Because there's grey-area wording that *could* be rolled out to apply to us. And do you REALLY want to be in a semantic's battle during a court ticket ?? Out of sight is out of mind.

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

Stick up for your rights, but remember that the cops will win in the end.......

No, that's not true. I suggest you search on ScubaDetector's old posts to see a good example of how to stand up for yourself and win in the end. You have to be knowledgeable and willing to fight for your rights and that's a rare combination anymore or so it seems.

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

fwiw, the only time I have been challenged was on a Sunday morning on the front grounds of the local library. Small town head librarian came in to catch up on some work and said I couldn't 'dig holes'. I informed her that not only was it legal but that I had personally spoken to the Chief of Police and gotten his assurance that it was OK on any public property (true). She backed off. I was polite, but firm and did the verbal judo thing to keep it calm.

Know where you stand, keep it civil, but don't let people run over you.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Good luck to # 1. Defend yourself. Sue for harassment.