Viking Longboat Found in California Mountains!

[Injunbro]

There's a petroglyph of a Viking ship in the cliffs above the Agua Fria River north of Phoenix also. I have no explanation of it or of the "space men" petroglyphs a couple miles south of it but in the same canyon. I can give general directions to anyone who asks by PM but getting permission to cross the private ranch to get to them is up to you. The ranch manger who I used to know died a few years ago in a helicopter crash.

 

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[aaronsm321]

View attachment 1290577

Okay. Since this is the only Viking Longboat Story I know of, I will put it here in the area for a different "Lost Ship of the Desert" Story.

Everybody has heard of the "Lost Pearl Ship" of Capt Juan Iturbide. Even more amazing (to me) is the lesser known story regarding the finding of what appeared to be a Viking Longboat in the Coyote Mountains just Southwest of Palm Springs, Ca. The story appears in several places online and in print, but I will use the following website as a reference for this, because both the author and his father had a chance to personally interview Myrtle Botts before she passed away. Both believe her story.

VIKING DESERT SHIP

The original story was told by Mrs. Myrtle Botts:



Now, that in and of itself is a good story. But that is all it is......a good story. So, are there any other references to Vikings in the Southwest US? Let's see:

I have a friend that has been studying and documenting the history of the Seri Indians for about twenty years (they call themselves Comca'ac). Part of the tribal history is that of a group of Red Haired Giants that lived on Tiburon Island in the Sea of Cortez. They were very aggressive, but the Seri (aggressive themselves) did have some exchanges with them. Unfortunately, due to the fact that the Seri (Comca'ac) were never completely pacified by the Spanish, they were hunted for bounty and almost completely eradicated. There are only about 80 or so Seri Indians left in the world.

View attachment 1290585

Okay. So we have a story that may mesh with Mrs. Botts' Longboat Story. Anything else?

Absolutely! If one were to draw a line from Tiburon Island up to Death Valley, the area near Mrs Botts' Story is right there. But, between Tiburon Island and The Coyote Mountains is a large boulder with a very interesting petroglyph:

View attachment 1290577

The petroglyph is of a single masted ship. Pearl Ship? Viking Ship?

Okay, anything else? Why yes! There is! In 1931, a Dr. F. Bruce Russell supposedly fell through the roof of a cave by Death Valley. In this cave system were the remains of several gigantic men around nine feet in height. They had red hair. This story comes several years before Myrtle Botts' Story, and long before the Seri (Comca'ac) History of Red Haired Giants was ever heard by whites.

Who has something to add here?

Mike

Mike/Gollum,
There are 3 or 4 guys here on T Net that really seem to post some high quality prolific information. It truly is appreciated and I am working my way through most of your posts. Would really love to pick your brain sometime. But I might have some relevant information on the SERI peoples in your post. I'm sitting here having kinda a slow day at work, reading through your post, and what do I have on my desk before me …the book "Giants on Record" by Jim Viera and Hugh Newman.

Here is what they have to say regarding this area near coyote mountains:
"In 1539, an expedition led by Francis Coronado was on a quest to discover the legendary seven cities of cibola...around 300 Spaniards and 800 indians.... While searching... The ran into several tribes of Indian giants near Mexico's present day border with California and Arizona. The expedition was documented by Pedro de Castaneda who accompanied Coronado....traveled through areas now called Sonora and Sinaloa"

So on the journey, Coronado sent a ship captained by Hernando de Alarcon to meet them and resupply. This ship was to follow the coastline.

The book takes up again :

"Coronado sent a team to rendezvous with the ship"... "Don Rodrigo Maldonado, who was captain of those who went in search of the ships, did not find them, but he brought back with him and Indian so large and tall that the best man in the army reached only his chest. It was said that other Indians were even taller on the coast."... they go on to state " this particular giant was later revealed to be part of the SERI tribe, inhabitants of the Tiburon Island" .... " soon after this, whilst trying to establish contact with Alarcon, Captain Melchior Diaz took a group of men... toward the north and west in search of the coast and ships"... " after searching about 150 leagues, they came to a province of exceedingly tall and strong men - like giants" " these were later found to be a YUMA tribe called the Cocopa, who were huge... able to carry three to four hundred weight on their head"

After this it seems they found the supply ship/s.

"they made it to the mouth of the colorado river... dropped anchor... took two smaller boats to fight against the powerful current".... "Alarcon and his men made it as far as the southern edge of the Grand Canyon"

 

[traveller777]

So, some Vikings sailed in a Longboat around Cape Horn or the Cape of Good Hope to the west coast of North America? That would be one heck of a journey in what amounts to no more than a large life boat. I would have to see physical evidence. Possible but begs to question why they would do that.

 

[bobinsd]

um i think they do occur just as a rare event. weather reports from the area only go back about 100 years. in a way weather reports do not go back even that far as there was really no one in the area consistently making reports on the weather until the newspapers started. You live in an area for many years and you start to think that because the weather has always been the way you experienced it that is the way it always is and was. But that just is not true. As an example experts in historical weather tell us that there was a little ice age event between the 1400s and the 1800s that caused a drought in the area. Presumably the area could have been wetter in the Viking era.
there was a desert tornado in 2015 admittedly not in the shadow of that side of the mountain range but still not all that far away as storms go.
[Pics and Video] A Tornado Hit Desert Center Tuesday!! - Cactus Hugs

So, some Vikings sailed in a Longboat around Cape Horn or the Cape of Good Hope to the west coast of North America? That would be one heck of a journey in what amounts to no more than a large life boat. I would have to see physical evidence. Possible but begs to question why they would do that.

If you look thru the thread you will find evidence showing the Vikings could have come by way of the NW.passage.
Re the Botts story I believed it all until I checked the elevation at Agua Caliente Springs, 1350 feet above SL. The highest.level Lake Cahuilla.reached was 42 feet ASL.
No.way the boat reached that height even by portage. My guess.is Laguna Salada.

 

[bobinsd]

um i think they do occur just as a rare event. weather reports from the area only go back about 100 years. in a way weather reports do not go back even that far as there was really no one in the area consistently making reports on the weather until the newspapers started. You live in an area for many years and you start to think that because the weather has always been the way you experienced it that is the way it always is and was. But that just is not true. As an example experts in historical weather tell us that there was a little ice age event between the 1400s and the 1800s that caused a drought in the area. Presumably the area could have been wetter in the Viking era.
there was a desert tornado in 2015 admittedly not in the shadow of that side of the mountain range but still not all that far away as storms go.
[Pics and Video] A Tornado Hit Desert Center Tuesday!! - Cactus Hugs

I must respectfully disagree on that point pard, the gulf of California gets some wicked tidal bores, and the Colorado river has periodically broken out of its channel, flooding the Salton basin even in historic period. A ship could be carried up by a powerful tidal bore, or simply sailed up the river during one of those periods when it was flooding the Salton sink, and ended up trapped there. But technically you are right, the sea has not been directly connected to the sink for a very long time.

the water level in that area is above 1300/feet Real is.correct!

 

[gollum]

Okay, YES I KNOW THIS IS OLD, but some things needed to be added.

The story told by the Seri Indians is as follows: Tiburon Island is the ancestral home of the Seri. Before they settled down, ANY intruder on Tiburon was killed, then their hands were chopped off and placed on tall spikes near the water so others could see them.One day a group of red-haired-giants showed up on the island. The Seri fought them for about nine months, and then they came to terms. Everything was good for a while, then one day (just like they came) they were gone with several of the tribe's women.

I think its possible they sailed through the NW Passage and down the West Coast. They sailed up through the Sea of Cortez, Laguna Salada, and into The Widney Sea. They got landlocked and thought the ocean wasn't much further North, so they carried the longboat until they got to the ridge in the Coyotes. When they saw it wasn't the ocean they came on, they took everything and left the boat there. That is why we have stories about Red-Haired-Giants in a nice line from the Sea of Cortez to Lovelocke Cave, Nevada.

AARONSM321:

Nice story. Could have a real tie-in with my friends Seri History of them. I'll ask her if they have any idea of the dates.

Mike

 

[serigüera]

Okay, YES I KNOW THIS IS OLD, but some things needed to be added.

The story told by the Seri Indians is as follows: Tiburon Island is the ancestral home of the Seri. Before they settled down, ANY intruder on Tiburon was killed, then their hands were chopped off and placed on tall spikes near the water so others could see them.One day a group of red-haired-giants showed up on the island. The Seri fought them for about nine months, and then they came to terms. Everything was good for a while, then one day (just like they came) they were gone with several of the tribe's women.

I think its possible they sailed through the NW Passage and down the West Coast. They sailed up through the Sea of Cortez, Laguna Salada, and into The Widney Sea. They got landlocked and thought the ocean wasn't much further North, so they carried the longboat until they got to the ridge in the Coyotes. When they saw it wasn't the ocean they came on, they took everything and left the boat there. That is why we have stories about Red-Haired-Giants in a nice line from the Sea of Cortez to Lovelocke Cave, Nevada.

AARONSM321:

Nice story. Could have a real tie-in with my friends Seri History of them. I'll ask her if they have any idea of the dates.

Mike

Hi Mike 🤗 It's me Margot I stumbled on this great site when reopening the Viking ship conversation. I would love to fill you in on recent advancements. Do you still have my contact info? Cheers!

 

[gollum]

Hi Mike 🤗 It's me Margot I stumbled on this great site when reopening the Viking ship conversation. I would love to fill you in on recent advancements. Do you still have my contact info? Cheers!

HEY MARGOT,

I do. I will send you a PM about some other interesting stuff. Really great to hear from you.

EVERYBODY,
Please allow me to introduce my friend Margot (Last Name Redacted LOL). She has been traveling to Mexico, living with the Seri, and recording their history for posterity for about the last 25 years (oh shit, I just checked: 30 years). Its amazing because Margot is only 32! See, most Seri History is oral, and with fewer than 100 actual Seri Indians in existence, Margot has been Recording Video of all the Seri History she can gather, so if the worst happens, their history won't be lost. Hell, the Seri even protect her from the Narcos!

Mike

 

[gollum]

INJUNBRO,

I know this is older than me, but I'm not sure which "Viking Ship" Petroglyph you are referring to. I live near Prescott and am all over the Mingus and Bradshaws all the time. Shoot me a pic if you don't mind.

Mike

 

[gollum]

So back to the Viking Longboat.

Based on the Seri History, the location of the longboat, the Death Valley Story, and Lovelock Cave, NV, I would guess the Vikings Traveled through the NW Passage to the Pacific. Down the West Coast and around Cabo San Lucas into the Sea of Cortez. North to Tiburon Island. Fight with the Seri, settle down, then leave heading North. Into Laguna Salada, North up the Colorado. Take the American River when it splits from the Colorado (American heads Northwest, while the Colorado heads almost due East at the split. The Vikings were looking for a way back to the Pacific. It must have been during a low sea level period, otherwise they wouldn't have had to portage their boat up to the ridge. Can we guess at any time period? Based on all that ....NO. LOL But I found something that helps narrow the possibilities:

It shows the Sea Levels of Widney Sea from 700AD to the Titanic (about). If you look at the depth of the Salton Sea now, the old Widney Sea was about two hundred feet deeper than it is currently (for the most part). Leif Erikson landed in North America in ABOUT 1000AD. Give time for exploration and living, my guess is the 1200AD Low Level Period.

Mike

 

[gollum]

So, back to the Viking Longboat in the Coyotes. Whomever they were (Vikings or Anunaki, or whatever), doesn't really matter. It would be amazing to find proof of nine foot tall warriors in America, but for the sake of the story lets see:

Northwest Passage to the Pacific. Sail South to Mexico, and round Cabo San Lucas. Sail North looking for a shortcut back to the Pacific Ocean. Into Laguna Salada. Once there, up the Colorado to where The American River splits off to the North. They would likely have traveled on the American, because it went more Northwest, and the Colorado flows almost due East. They were looking for a way back to the Pacific, not the way to Phoenix! LOL Here is an illustration of the depth of the Salton Sea/Widney Sea through history:

View attachment 2157703

You can see that throughout history, until about 1700, the Widney/Salton Sea was over 200 feet deeper than it is currently. My guess is that when they got to the top of the ridge, they could see the Salton Sink, so they left their boat right there. That would make their trip during one of the low water times. Pretty easy to guess a general date (950AD was during a time of great exploration and conquest for the Vikings. Leif Erikson landed in North America in about 1000AD. See, all these dates seem to form a pattern. My guess, all this happened in around 950AD or the 1200AD low level.

Mike

Oh yeah, and Margot can confirm or deny this:
I believe most Seri are like most Yaqui. Short. Imagine an adult that stood 4'10' standing in front of a Red-Haired Warrior that might have stood 6'4"-6'6". THAT would have looked like a GIANT! I ran into Shaq one night at a club in New Orleans (I was door mgr). When he walked in, he had to duck to get through the door. I am 6'4"(Shaq is 7'2"), THAT MAN looked almost giantish to me. LOL I also met Hawk & Animal (The Road Warriors). Hawk was M-A-S-S-I-V-E!

Mike

 

[gollum]

Hey Margot,

Mind if I post that pic you sent me showing the Rock Art left by the Giants IIRC?

Mike

 

[Oregon Viking]

My ship!!!

 

[gollum]

My ship!!!

View attachment 2157759

Then the State of California is looking for you to pay a littering fine for leaving that damn hunk of trash in Anza-Borrego Desert State Park! HAHAHA They're also trying to find those Spanish SOBs that left the damn Caravelle in the Salton Sink near El Centro. They got a tag number, and they think it was an illegal alien named Iturbide.

Mike

 

[gollum]

For anybody interested in the work Margot is doing with the Seri, here is the url of "The Comcaac Project" on Facebook:

The Comcaac Project

The Comcaac Project. 1,334 likes. Independent, Indigenous-led collaborative multimedia cultural rescue

www.facebook.com

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Please do continue

 

[rickertmork]

You mean "SHARKNADO"! Sharknado II (The Second One) and Sharknado III (OH HELL NO!) are currently on Netflix.

Mike

 

[gollum]

Please do continue

Margot and Seri History were how I found out that Padre Eusebbio Francisco Kino SJ did not die of an illness at his Mission Santa Maria Magdalena. What the Seri say happened is this; The Jesuits were converting every Indian Tribe they could to Catholicism. The Seri were warlike and didn't like being told what to do. When they refused to convert, Kino told the Spanish Colonials it was okay to take Seri Scalps. So, they poisoned Padre Kino SJ. He rode his horse to his Mission. Placed the saddle on the floor. Lay down using the saddle as a pillow. Pulled the horse blanket over him, then died some hours later.

WELCOME TO REAL WORLD HISTORY! LOL

Mike

 

[gollum]

Mike/Gollum,
There are 3 or 4 guys here on T Net that really seem to post some high quality prolific information. It truly is appreciated and I am working my way through most of your posts. Would really love to pick your brain sometime. But I might have some relevant information on the SERI peoples in your post. I'm sitting here having kinda a slow day at work, reading through your post, and what do I have on my desk before me …the book "Giants on Record" by Jim Viera and Hugh Newman.

Here is what they have to say regarding this area near coyote mountains:
"In 1539, an expedition led by Francis Coronado was on a quest to discover the legendary seven cities of cibola...around 300 Spaniards and 800 indians.... While searching... The ran into several tribes of Indian giants near Mexico's present day border with California and Arizona. The expedition was documented by Pedro de Castaneda who accompanied Coronado....traveled through areas now called Sonora and Sinaloa"

So on the journey, Coronado sent a ship captained by Hernando de Alarcon to meet them and resupply. This ship was to follow the coastline.

The book takes up again :

"Coronado sent a team to rendezvous with the ship"... "Don Rodrigo Maldonado, who was captain of those who went in search of the ships, did not find them, but he brought back with him and Indian so large and tall that the best man in the army reached only his chest. It was said that other Indians were even taller on the coast."... they go on to state " this particular giant was later revealed to be part of the SERI tribe, inhabitants of the Tiburon Island" .... " soon after this, whilst trying to establish contact with Alarcon, Captain Melchior Diaz took a group of men... toward the north and west in search of the coast and ships"... " after searching about 150 leagues, they came to a province of exceedingly tall and strong men - like giants" " these were later found to be a YUMA tribe called the Cocopa, who were huge... able to carry three to four hundred weight on their head"

After this it seems they found the supply ship/s.

"they made it to the mouth of the colorado river... dropped anchor... took two smaller boats to fight against the powerful current".... "Alarcon and his men made it as far as the southern edge of the Grand Canyon"

I know this is old, but here ya go:

First, thanks for the compliments. I'll say it before Oroblanco does (since El Gran Heffe del Tayopa has died). "STOP COMPLIMENTING MIKE! His head is already big enough!" LOL

The story has many of the hallmarks of being true ......................... except:

There's nothing "Secret" or "Lost" about The Cocopah Nation!

About Us - Cocopah Indian Tribe

Cocopah Indian Tribe. A Tradition of Honor. A Future of Progress.

www.cocopah.com

I would think we might have found out about their Giant Stature by now if that was true. I mean, you can just drive down to the Reservation and see fer yer'self! HAHAHA Here is what they say is the ACTUAL TRANSLATION of the Journals:

Spanish explorer Hernando de Alarcon, a member of Coronado's marine expedition, traveled the river in 1540 and described members of the Cocopah Indian Tribe as tall, well-built people who carried wooden maces and bows and arrows. The men wore loincloths and the women wore willow bark skirts. The explorer and his crew were offered gifts of shells, beads, well-tanned leathers and food.

Remember, at this time, average Male Height was around 5'7".

See, this story is a perfect example of how to quickly do some basic research to either show evidence OF (or AGAINST) the story. The easy way is to take the most outrageous part of the story a dig into it. The simple way was to use my "Ugoogely Machine" and type in "COCOPAH" (pretty straightforward), and The Tribal Website was the second listing.

Another thing which threw up a "Red Flag", was that the book says "Alarcon SAILED up the Colorado from the Sea of Cortez". If THAT was true, then the Salton/Widney Sea (in 1540) COULD NOT be at or near a low point (see above chart). This one looks true, as the Widney Sea Level in 1540 was about 100+ feet higher than it is now. Plenty of draft to sail the Colorado in a Caravelle.

Mike