"Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

[MiddenMonster]

"Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

This is probably as specific as I would get when the possibility of treasure is present. I have a friend who lives in the Ozarks on a 45 acre farm. Their house is in the "front" field near the dirt road. Behind their house is a large wooded area that has probably been replatted several times over the last century. On that land I have found the following that might yield something:

Individual rocks laid out as a foundation for a building.
Large, fallen tree about 50' from the foundation.
Old well with square concrete framing around it and full of water.

The rocks generally lay out the outer walls of where a building was, with another line of rocks placed along the length of the house, but in the center (to support the floor joists). All that remains are the rocks, and some junk around the outside such as old metal gas cans. The surrounding area has hundreds of trees with trunk diameters from 1" to 3", indicating to me that this might have been a grass field a hundred years ago. About 50' from the rock foundation is a fallen tree (mostly intact) that is about 24"-30" in diamter. About 200' from the foundation remains (downhill, bottom of the hollow) is the well. It's full to the brim with black water, seems to be fed by a spring and the surrounding area gets real swampy when it rains. Ground water comes up out of the ground in several places. The slopes of the wooded area have several junk areas, with old washers, dryers, stoves and vehicle parts strewn about. There are the remains of a tricycle from the `50s. I think people lived in the existing house for the last 40 or so years, but the part of the woods with the foundation, well and junk doesn't seem to have had long-term habitation for close to a century, if not more.

What are the chances a poor, rural area like this could yield a serious coin or metals cache? If the chance are good, where are the most likely spots? To me the most likely candidates would be around the large fallen tree, and inside the well. I can run a detector around the tree, but the well is close to 10' deep or more. I think I would have to pump it out (and keep pumping, since it's fed by a spring) to see what's inside, but what kind of pump can you use that won't destroy the stuff as it's sucked up? The well also seems to double as a cistern. While it's at least 10' deep, the opening in the top is about 2'X2', and the inside walls of the well are between 5' and 6' wide.

Any ideas on where to start, what kind of stuff to look for, etc? I'm already aware that the majority of what I find will be nails and other construction debris, but there should also be some virgin ground around, too. I also did some quick KGC research, and found that Jesse James pulled some roberies within 30 miles of the site, and he had a hideout about 15 miles from the site, though this site isn't even close to a direct line between the two. Most likely, if there is anything cached here it would have been by the residents. I'd like to see some maps from 50, 75, 100 and 150 years ago to see what the terrain was like, but don't know where to find them.

 

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[giterdone]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

Hello MM, first let me tell you anywhere people have lived in the past, there will be items which were lost that can be found. I would cover every inch of the old habitation first. I bet your local water dept. has a twelve volt trash pump you can borrow to suck the well dry and the screen will keep anything valuable from getting sucked up. Look for a series of indentions in the ground around the place to determine where an old fence row might have been for posthole banks. Try to visualize what might have been used for markers to line things up and check all points in between. For sure check around the perimeter of the old tree all the way out past where the limbs once hung. Old places almost always had a chicken coop which was a favored cach area since the chickens kept the ground disturbed, wiping away all signs of digging. Should also be a sunk in spot where the old outhouse was. Dig it up, checking for signals as you go. Don't let the "poorness" look of a site deter you! Treasure is where you find it! Giterdone

 

[gsmeiers]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

About 200' from the foundation remains (downhill, bottom of the hollow) is the well. It's full to the brim with black water, seems to be fed by a spring and the surrounding area gets real swampy when it rains. Ground water comes up out of the ground in several see some maps from 50, 75, 100 and 150 years ago to see what the terrain was like, but don't know where to find them.

The well is the most intriguing place to me. I remember as a kid any type of place where you can toss things down was COOL! Especially if you'd never see them again. Not sure the best way to see what's down there. If the water is truly black, there probably isn't much you can do... If it is see through, even a bit, sending a waterproof camera down might be cool.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

Hello MM, first let me tell you anywhere people have lived in the past, there will be items which were lost that can be found. I would cover every inch of the old habitation first. I bet your local water dept. has a twelve volt trash pump you can borrow to suck the well dry and the screen will keep anything valuable from getting sucked up.

I'll take that bet! It would be nice, but there is no such thing as a local water department. Everyone is on a septic tank system (and some may not even have that!) in this part of the country. The nearest town drains their sewage into a waste stabilization lagoon. The habitation will be easy to explore because all that remains are the natural stones that were used as the foundation. The entire structure was no more than 8'X12' is size. The difficult part will be patience on my part. For the last several years a man has been metal detecting in my neighborhood in yards where the owner gave him permission. I've watched him on several occasions, but doubt I could be as thorough as him. He'll spend several hours on a 6'X6' area, digging up everything that registers, then checking the ground again until he gets no signals. I don't have the experience metal detecting to have that kind of patience. I expect the gold to be within 6" of the surface, and that there be plenty of it. For that reason I think I'd have better luck searching the well, although it's poissible that it is just a cistern. It' always been full whenever I've seen it, so I don't know if it fills from a well spring below, or if it's just rain water. Either way, this looks like a site that would have collected a lot of stuff over the years, perhaps even the loot from a robbery. The well/cistern is located in a place that would have made it perfect for a passing rider to drop a bag of god coins down the hole--just before he was found and shot by the law, leaving his horde to the lucky person who found it more than 100 years later! I also think I'd be more comfortable hauling up buckets of sludge and dumping it over a screen system than checking every inch of ground and finding bottle caps. At least with the well/cistern you have a contained area that probably accumulated stuff fairly consistently when the place was inhabited. I just have to remember to save some of the water that gets pumped out. Once it's gone there won't be anything else to clean the debris, and the nearest water spigot is almost a mile away.

Look for a series of indentions in the ground around the place to determine where an old fence row might have been for posthole banks. Try to visualize what might have been used for markers to line things up and check all points in between.

That will be next to impossible. The ground has grown over several times in the last hundred years, and there are no visible markers for anything except the old house and well/cistern. That's why I used the phrase "virgin ground". I know it's been worked, but there are no signs of where it's been worked. The ground is also very rocky, and geologically active. I think I'd have to find some old maps to even get a reference point.

For sure check around the perimeter of the old tree all the way out past where the limbs once hung. Old places almost always had a chicken coop which was a favored cach area since the chickens kept the ground disturbed, wiping away all signs of digging. Should also be a sunk in spot where the old outhouse was. Dig it up, checking for signals as you go. Don't let the "poorness" look of a site deter you! Treasure is where you find it! Giterdone

Next time I'm down there I'll check for those things, but short of clearing a quarter to half acre I'm not sure how I can find them. I'm beginning to appreciate what goes into an archeological dig. Was there an rule of thumb for locating an outhouse, i.e. how far from the front/back door, and which side of the house?

 

[MiddenMonster]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

The well is the most intriguing place to me. I remember as a kid any type of place where you can toss things down was COOL! Especially if you'd never see them again. Not sure the best way to see what's down there. If the water is truly black, there probably isn't much you can do... If it is see through, even a bit, sending a waterproof camera down might be cool.

That's my plan. I like the possibilities of the well/cistern because anything it collects will be in a relatively small area. I can get my brother to help, and we can spend a day pumping water and hauling buckets of sludge up and dumping it over a screen sieve. If I wanted to be archeologically thorough I should probably do it methodically, and note the strata and layers where I find anything, and maybe even documenting it with a digital camera. Of course, documentation can come back and bite you, so I may just start pumping water and sludge like a madman! I think the water is black because of the leaves and tree bark that has fallen in over the last several decades. Right now the only thing covering the cistern is the cooling radiator from the back of a fridge. One good thing I noticed is the concrete surrounding this is in great shape, and I should be able to drill into it to add some concrete anchors and fasten a hatch door to the top. That way I can seal it up to prevent any rain from getting back in. If it is a well that feeds from the bottom, I'm screwed and will have to keep pumping it out every time. Of course, there's that two-edged sword again. If I put a hatch on it and lock it the thing will look like there is something valuable inside...

 

[Badger Bart]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

MM, for your well/ cistern, get you self a portable Banjo pump. It has a 2, 3, and 4 inch inlet and outlet hose, is self priming, and is run by a gas engine. They start at about $400 for the 3.5 HP Briggs engine. Pump it right into your sieve/ screen, moving the hose around inside the well to pump the sludge and water at the same time. They are often used up here to pump out blocked/ sluggish septic tanks, so they pump soft solids very well, perfect for your job. They are handy things to have, and worth the investment. http://www.kthsales.com/website/vendors/Banjo/banjo-pumps.htm - Maybe eBay would have a used one for less than new. I would think there is a good possibility of paying for it from the finds. It may be a little noisy in the woods, you may want to muffle it some more.

 

[Pitch]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

A cheaper alternative if you can get your truck close to the cistern is a 12v emergency sump pump available at sears or home depot. Supend it till it is a couple of inches off the bottom and it should do OK. Maybe slow goin but it should work if the cistern isn't fed by a fast spring. The fact that it has concrete walls would lead me to believe that it was constructed or at least improved in the '20s or '30s. much before that it would probably be constructed of laid native stone with mortared joints.

 

[Floater]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

All the advice you have been given Midden is Solid. I would like to tell you though that patience is a virtue and the rewards can be enormous. I am talking huge. you really do need to get a grasp on the overall layout and stop concentrating on the well or cistern. I wold definitely pump it and I would rent rather than buy any pump I used if possible. Don't lose site of the big picture though. You don't know who was in those woods or who lived in the house if this is what it was. It may have been an out building away fro themain house in which case the possibility of some cache is good burrid within the foundation area. Get your detector and clean out the area inside of the foundation buy hand and then set the detector to work. No pain no gain my friend unless you are just plain lucky and god bless you if you are. HH

 

[alwayslookin]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

I know the original post here is a few months old..I am just wondering of there are any updates---good or bad

Dave

 

[Floater]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

Good Point. I didnt even bother to look. well he posted 55 times so he must check back here once in a while.

 

[Badger Bart]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

" If I put a hatch on it and lock it the thing will look like there is something valuable inside..."

If you put a hatch on it and lock it, it will look like you care enough not to have anyone accidently fall in. Good PR, you wear the white hat.

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

Howdy, Missed your first post. Get yourself a 250 pound pull magnet and a stout plastic rope. Haul up all the scrap from the well. Maybe get some guns maybe tools and maybe a cast iron cooking pot full of coins with the lid wired shut. Magnet will cost about $20 and shipping on ebay and don't know what they would want for rope but can buy in any hardware store or department. exanimo, ss

 

[shamre]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

Howdy, Missed your first post. Get yourself a 250 pound pull magnet and a stout plastic rope. Haul up all the scrap from the well. Maybe get some guns maybe tools and maybe a cast iron cooking pot full of coins with the lid wired shut. Magnet will cost about $20 and shipping on ebay and don't know what they would want for rope but can buy in any hardware store or department. exanimo, ss

Man that is an awesome idea. I may just use that one myself if i ever run across any old wells. cheap too. How magnetic is silver, gold, etc? Do they stay firmly stuck to the magnet?

 

[Badger Bart]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

shamre, how old are you, and what grade are you in? The key to be a successful treasure hunter is knowing a lot about a lot of things, an education. That means pay attention in school, learn everything you possibly can. Then when you get out of school, your self- education begins. Never be afraid to ask questions. Read, and when you get tired of reading, take a break, then read some more, at least 4 hours per day.

Gold and silver are not magnetic. Find a magnet around the house and start learning what is magnetic and what is not.

 

[shamre]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

shamre, how old are you, and what grade are you in? The key to be a successful treasure hunter is knowing a lot about a lot of things, an education. That means pay attention in school, learn everything you possibly can. Then when you get out of school, your self- education begins. Never be afraid to ask questions. Read, and when you get tired of reading, take a break, then read some more, at least 4 hours per day.

Gold and silver are not magnetic. Find a magnet around the house and start learning what is magnetic and what is not.

Whoa your way off there. I am not a teenager. I read alot on everything including history. Why is that pertinent to my post? Did i come off as sounding really young?

 

[shamre]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

shamre, how old are you, and what grade are you in? The key to be a successful treasure hunter is knowing a lot about a lot of things, an education. That means pay attention in school, learn everything you possibly can. Then when you get out of school, your self- education begins. Never be afraid to ask questions. Read, and when you get tired of reading, take a break, then read some more, at least 4 hours per day.

Gold and silver are not magnetic. Find a magnet around the house and start learning what is magnetic and what is not.

I am new to this TH hobby, i did not know that gold and silver are not magnetic. I guess i just never tried to see if they had any magnetic charge. I fail to see how that qualifies me as uneducated. I could ask you alot of questions about computers or technical diving. I doubt you would have answers to those questions. I am sorry if i come off as angry, but i thought your posting was real offensive and unwarranted.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

I know the original post here is a few months old..I am just wondering of there are any updates---good or bad

I'm still around, but for some reason I missed the recent posts on this thread. Here's the update...

I was having trouble getting my friends to take time off from work and travel the 600 miles to help me, so considering the safety factor I've decided to do this in two phases. The first should be in the next month or so, and will involve me going to the site and using a hook to pull out all the brush that has collected over the years. The area is pretty overgrown, and I hate chiggers so I will probably clear the area around the well/cistern. I hadn't thought about using a magnet, so I will probably try to get a hold of one and bring it with me. I've always heard that you don't want to change the environment much on some artifacts, so I am going to hold off on pumping the water out until the fall, when I can have others around to help. I may do some metal detecting around the foundation (which, interestingly is right on the current property line) if the brush hasn't grown too much by then. About 50' or so from this foundation is a large fallen tree about 4' in diameter, probably an old hickory. I plan to do some detecting around that, too. Lot's of people go deer hunting every Fall in this area, so trash might be a problem.

The general area looks like it was probably an open area with a few trees about 100 years ago. Most of the trees now growing are less than 50 years old, and most of those are probably less than 30 years old. I do see a lot of stumps and rotting large trees that have fallen over. Lot's of sticker bushes and small brush in the entire area. Did I say that I HATE chiggers? Lot's of bobcats and supposedly a few cougars and bears in the area, too. I like that and always carry a .357 or shotgun when I'm in the woods.

Come fall, when I have some help I'm going to rent a trash pump with a 15' lift capacity and suck the water out, draining it over my seive sequence (which I need to build this summer), and some of that water will go into one of those oval stock tanks you can get from feed store. That way I can use it to clean anything I find, and pump some back down the well hole if I need to cover something I can't dig. I don't think the concrete has started to crumble, but safety has to be the prime consideration, as this could easily become a grave if it collapses. The problem is that I don't think there will be much room for any significant buttressing inside, and still allow me to drop down and do some searching and digging. My metal detector is just a Garrett 350, which I believe is designed primarily for coin hunting. Not the greatest, but it should work.

I will probably take some digital pictures when I go up this Spring, and will try to post them when I get back. I tried posting some on another thread this morning, but they didn't show up (26K in size). Other than this info, the area is still just as secluded and untouched as it has been for years. I know the people who own the property and they don't go down in the woods that much. On the bright side, I do get to see a mated pair of bald eagles whenever I go up there, and this year they may have some eaglets flying with them.

 

[Badger Bart]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

shamre, you sounded like a 2nd grader, and you did take my post all wrong. I find it hard to believe that anyone past 3rd grade doesn't know gold & silver are not magnetic. What the hell are they teaching in school these days?

 

[shamre]

Re: "Virgin" ground, rural Ozarks. Any chance of finding much?

shamre, you sounded like a 2nd grader, and you did take my post all wrong. I find it hard to believe that anyone past 3rd grade doesn't know gold & silver are not magnetic. What the hell are they teaching in school these days?

whatever! It has been a long time since i have been in second grade. Do you remember everything that you learned in second grade? I seriously doubt it. When did you go to school? 1932.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Dude,I,m 69 and I didn,t know gold and silver were not magnetic until I started reading these forums.Lighten up a little,instead of making fun of people,try and educate them,I,m sure they,ll appreciate that much more.