Was Jesse James really Assassinated?

[savant365]

I thought I would start a new thread here about Jesse James death instead of his buried treasure. Supposedly Gov. T.T. Crittenden was involved with the Ford brothers in his assassination. A couple of things bother me about this:

1. Why would he have a hand in killing Jesse and then pardon his brother frank?

2. Crittenden was in the Union army but after the war he was law partners with Francis Cockrell who was a confederate general and he was nominated for Governor by John S. Marmaduke, another confederate general. It seems to me he had a lot of post war connections with former confederates, I wonder where his real loyalty was?

3. Bob and Charley Ford were convicted of murdering Jesse James and Crittenden pardoned them. Wasn't there a $10,000 reward dead or alive for JJ? If he was wanted dead or alive why was there even a trial?

4. After his death the sheriff from Clay county came and got the body with deputies that were known raiders. I got this from the TV show but I will do some further research on this and on JJ's autopsy report.

I am just curious if anyone else sees what I do and has the same questions or if I am just being a big conspiracy theorist?

Charlie

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Keep up the good work! I think you're hot on the trail! Who knows, you may stumble onto something and become ...

"The Man Who Solved the Mystery of Jesse James Death."

 

[savant365]

LOL, the next "Ron Pastore" of Jesse James lore. I don't think I will ever get that involved with it but there are just so many things that are recorded as "historical fact" that just don't make sense about his life and death. Ever since I watched that show about his buried treasure on the History channel Monday night (twice) I just can't help but ask questions. There will probably never be any way to prove or disprove anything conclusively but wouldn't it be nice if some documentation from Governor Crittenden existed and came to light...maybe he has a diary somewhere just waiting to be found. I wonder if there is a "Governors book" in Missouri like the "Presidents book" from National Treasure 2...LMAO In reality though it's kinda like metal detecting, you never know exactly what you're going to dig up. It's not very probable that there is anything like a diary from anyone involved in his death (or disappearance) but anything is possible.

HH Charlie

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

The governor aspect may get a little complicated, but the part about the $10,000.00 reward should turn something up. We know that Robert Ford started a stage act of the so called shooting, but what about his finincial standings? There must be some record of whether or not he ever received the reward. Of course, it could have been paid under the table. But I refuse to presently accept that if he was involved with a scheme to fake the JJ death, that he would have done it for free gratis. Of course, if it was faked, Jesse himself was obviously involved, and could have compensated Ford personally. After all, didn't Jesse have a ton of money? Oops, I forgot ... it's still buried in Kansas somewhere and waiting for the snow to melt so the History Channel people can go dig it up. Maybe when they do, they will find that diary or some of the other documents you mentioned.

 

[BILL96]

The problem I have always had with Jesse faking his death are his wife and family. His wife lived out the remaider of her years in apparant poverty. She sold his possesions and lived for a time with jesses mother. It certaily appears that he left her with nothing, if he faked his own death wouldn't he have made some provisions for his family. With all of his faults he did seem to take care of his family, faking his death and deserting his family just doesn't seem to fit.

Bill

 

[savant365]

Bill96,

Valid questions, I don't know what kind of man he really was. Is it possible that he faked his death and let her go so that she could live out her life without the cloud of his past hanging over her. It may of been his way of getting her out of the spotlight. People these days leave their spouses and kids all the time, I don't think it happened nearly as often back then but it did happen. Thanks for the reply,

H Charlie

 

[savant365]

From page 2 at this link:

http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/findingaids/rg003-24.pdf

Missouri state law limited the amount of rewards offered for the capture of criminals to $300. After seeking and receiving pledges from the railroads for larger amounts, Crittenden offered $5,000 each for the capture of Frank and Jesse James. He also offered
$5,000 each for the capture, arrest, and conviction of the remainder of the James Brothers Gang. On April 3, 1882, Robert Ford shot and killed Jesse James, turned himself in to authorities, and claimed the reward. He was subsequently tried and convicted of the murder of Jesse James and sentenced to hang. Immediately pardoned by Governor Crittenden, Ford collected little of the reward money. Frank James surrendered personally to Crittenden on October 5, 1882. Acquitted of the murder of a railroad employee, James was employed in various jobs before retiring to farm life. He died on February 18, 1915 and a son of Governor Crittenden served as pallbearer. The governor paid out $20,000 in reward money for the capture and conviction of members of the James Gang but refused to divulge to whom.

I wonder why he would not say who he paid the reward to?

 

[Jimmy(PA)]

He died, people love to make more out of stories like this and compliment the rather simple chain of events leading to their fates. Some say Billy the Kid, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid etc. also faked deaths. These guys had violent friends, lived violent lives, it was bound to catch up to them eventually. It makes for good story telling but nothing more IMO. Elvis is still alive though.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Occam's Razor" comes into focus again. Originated in the 1400's, and states ;

"The simplest answer is usually the correct one!"

The term "razor" refers to the gradual "shaving off" of unessasary assumptions until the naked truth is revealed. Which (In my opinion) suggest that Jesse James was in fact killed by Robert Ford. (And as much as I want to believe that Jesse lived to be a ripe old age, he most likely did die on that memorial day in 1882.)

But dang it! I just can't get the photo of the elder (Uncle?) J. W. (Jerry) James out of my mind!
"Dead" ringer!

(Date corrected ... Thanks KK.)

 

[Kentucky Kache]

"Occams Razor" comes into focus again. Originated in the 1400's, and states ;

"The simplest answer is usually the correct one!"

The term "razor" refers to the gradual "shaving off" of unessasary evidence until the naked truth is revealed. Which (In my opinion) suggest that Jesse James was in fact killed by Robert Ford. (And as much as I want to believe that Jesse lived to be a ripe old age, he most likely did die on that memorial day in 1852.)
But dang it, I just can't get the photo image of the elder J. W. (Jerry) James out of my mind! "Dead" ringer!

Jesse's death (supposed) was 1882. He would have been 5 years old in '52.

 

[Shortstack]

There's another fact that doesn't make sense, if JJ was killed by Ford. When his Mama was brought in to see his body, the first thing she said was, "that's not Jesse." Now nobody can tell me that she didn't recognize her own son. She left the room then came back shortly and recanted and said it was him. She never shed a tear either.
This info was presented in a very interesting program about JJ's possibly faked death on (yep) The History Channel, several months ago. Several knowledgeable western historians were on that program.

 

[savant365]

Another question,

How was there a bullet hole in the wall and the bullet that killed him was removed from his head during the autopsy?

 

[ClonedSIM]

It was aliens, that's the only possible explanation. Body snatchers. JJ is still alive, but he's slinging pistols on Neptune now.

 

[Libralabsoldier]

I have done a good bit of research about Frank James, since he was reported to have lived not too far from me. I will see what I can dig up in the Apache town Museum.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Another question,

How was there a bullet hole in the wall and the bullet that killed him was removed from his head during the autopsy?

I read about that so called bullet hole just today. It said over the years that tourist to the house had picked away at the hole for a souvenir of the plaster to the point where the hole enlarged to a foot in diameter. Finally the propriotors of the museum put a protective cover over it, but by then the damage had already been done. I have no idea what condition it's in today. Perhaps someone who has been there recently will comment on that.

 

[Jimmy(PA)]

Maybe the hole in the wall was actually from the nail on which the picture was hanging, it might have fell out when he went down with the picture?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's a photograph of the wall showing the bullet hole. The home is now a museum, and is located in St. Joseph, Missouri. The bullet hole has been picked at, and can be seen in the small frame in the upper left hand corner. If in fact the bullet was removed from Jesse's head ... then what went into the wall? As far as I have been able to determine, there has never been mention of the bullet having been removed from the wall and put on display. Which it surely would have been!

 

[Jeffro]

I thought I would start a new thread here about Jesse James death instead of his buried treasure. Supposedly Gov. T.T. Crittenden was involved with the Ford brothers in his assassination. A couple of things bother me about this:

1. Why would he have a hand in killing Jesse and then pardon his brother frank?

Possibly to let Frank have free reign on going after the "murderers", covering his own tracks?

2. Crittenden was in the Union army but after the war he was law partners with Francis Cockrell who was a confederate general and he was nominated for Governor by John S. Marmaduke, another confederate general. It seems to me he had a lot of post war connections with former confederates, I wonder where his real loyalty was?

Who knows?

3. Bob and Charley Ford were convicted of murdering Jesse James and Crittenden pardoned them. Wasn't there a $10,000 reward dead or alive for JJ? If he was wanted dead or alive why was there even a trial?

Because shooting someone in the back was considered bad form, even if the reward was for dead or alive. Much different customs back in those days.

4. After his death the sheriff from Clay county came and got the body with deputies that were known raiders. I got this from the TV show but I will do some further research on this and on JJ's autopsy report.

I am just curious if anyone else sees what I do and has the same questions or if I am just being a big conspiracy theorist?

Charlie

 

[Jeffro]

There's another fact that doesn't make sense, if JJ was killed by Ford. When his Mama was brought in to see his body, the first thing she said was, "that's not Jesse." Now nobody can tell me that she didn't recognize her own son. She left the room then came back shortly and recanted and said it was him. She never shed a tear either.
This info was presented in a very interesting program about JJ's possibly faked death on (yep) The History Channel, several months ago. Several knowledgeable western historians were on that program.

I didn't recognize my own Grandfather when he passed- with or without makeup. Weird how the lack of muscle control can change a face after death. Couple that with denial, and I can easily see how Jesse's own mother wouldn't recognize him.

 

[Jeffro]

Here's a photograph of the wall showing the bullet hole. The home is now a museum, and is located in St. Joseph, Missouri. The bullet hole has been picked at, and can be seen in the small frame in the upper left hand corner. If in fact the bullet was removed from Jesse's head ... then what went into the wall? As far as I have been able to determine, there has never been mention of the bullet having been removed from the wall and put on display. Which it surely would have been!

This is kinda gross- but absolutely true.

I once had to clean up after a suicide. He had cancer and was a dead man walking basically. He lived as best he could until the pain got too intense to go on, refusing pain killers. The family had removed all pistols and any medications just as a precaution. They forgot the 30-30 rifle which was his favorite brush gun. He placed the barrel up to his chest, reached out and touched her off. While the bullet fragmented upon hitting bone, the bone pieces wound up in the walls. I know because I had to dig them out and repair the holes.

Coulda easily been a chunk of bone that made the hole in the wall, even if the bullet never exited.

Plus, who knows if the actual bullet was ever recovered? May have been several slugs rounded up from the back forty sold as "the bullet that killed Jesse James". Just a possibility.


I've got a sneaky suspicion that Bob Ford actually did kill Jesse. Since he toured the country with his "show". He saw himself as more of a hero than a coward....