Weird 1842 Half Dime - BUT- How did it happen?

[Don in SJ]

Back in September 2008 I found a silver coin that I thought was just a fire damaged Half Dime, and logged it in my records and put the coin away. Recently I started a project where I am reweighing and measuring all of my colonials and also some of the US coins that I have found over the years.

When I weighed and measured this 1842 "fire damaged" Half Dime I realized that something is amiss. The weight as seen in my attached photo is in-line with a regular 1842 half dime found by me, but the diameter is much larger. I got out a 1841 dime and weighed and measured that and the diameter of my Half Dime is much closer to the Dime than the Half Dime!

With the pock marks on the "fired damaged" Half Dime, I thought perhaps it was just a pewter mixed counterfeit, but if so, how did the spacing match the Dime (example, look at the distance from bottom of coin to the lower area of Liberty, and the spacing of the letters matches the Dime also.....

So, can anybody explain to me what went on with this coin? With the weight being correct for a 1842 Half Dime, but the Diameter being way too large, and very close to a Dime, and the spacing more like the Dime than the tiny Half Dime, how was this done?

On the metal detector the "fire damaged" dime does not read like the real 1842 Half Dime does, it thuds when dropped, so I am fairly certain it is not of the silver content the other 1842 dime is, or perhaps a fire lowers its purity somehow but yet the weight is basically the same.

For now I have to think it is a pewter counterfeit half dime, that somehow is on a dime sized planchet, but how the spacing matches a dime on the letters and other measurements, has me stumped. There is reeding on the edge of the coin in question. I also now think it is not perhaps a fire damaged coin, but just that way from perhaps being a pewter mixture, but I do remember charcoal in the ground where found.........

The photo is of all three coins laying next to each other so the size comparison is obvious and the letter and feature spacing........... Only the Obverse and Reverse groups of photos were stitched together.

Don

 

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[l.cutler]

Zinc cents when heated to just about the melting point kind of "spread out". Something along those lines perhaps? Never heard of it happening with other metals though.

 

[Don in SJ]

Zinc cents when heated to just about the melting point kind of "spread out". Something along those lines perhaps? Never heard of it happening with other metals though.

I know what you mean, and of course considered that possibiity, but somehow does not seem to match in this case. I posted this also for the C4 guys, hoping to get a decent response.

Don

 

[VERMONTPACKRAT]

My guess is that the coin some how melted "liquified" while lying perfectly flat. Could silver oxide "tone" be enough to hold the detail of the coin if this happened?


VPR

 

[Coinkid]

My guess is that it's simply a bad counterfeit that was in the ground for a while.



-Paul

 

[Don in SJ]

My guess is that it's simply a bad counterfeit that was in the ground for a while.
-Paul

Coins may get funky being in the ground for awhile, but neither copper coins nor silver coins get larger while in the ground, the real question is, since I am now convinced it is a less than standard silver amount in the coin, based on Specific Gravity readings, tone ID and digital ID on the Explorer SE, that how could a person make a counterfeit half dime and stretch it do dime size without distortion of features or lettering and the thickness actually be thicker than any half dime. I believe the thickness rules out hammering the coin between leather or hard wood to make a half dime a dime size coin, since then it would have to be thinner, since it weighs the same as a half dime does.

To make the cast counterfeit like this, it had to start off using a real half dime for making the mould, would it not? This is a weird one for sure.

Don

 

[Don in SJ]

Here are the results of testing today, the photos showing where the particular coins read on the digital readout and the data I gathered on each coin. The Specific Gravity reading of a lower number on the coin in question, proves it is not of the same metal content as the two other half dimes I measured today. The detector readings and and Specific Gravity readings are in agreement with each, indicating counterfeit.

So, original question still there, how did this happen?


Don

 

[VERMONTPACKRAT]

Is it simply a counterfeit Half Dime that has seen some fire?

VPR

 

[Mike Moutray]

fire will do some crazy things to coins... I've seen other silver coins expanded or distorted by extreme heat. Seems to me it would be fruitless to counterfeit a small coin like a half dime. Try some silver testing acid to see if it is silver or not. Interesting find either way!
HH, mike.