What is wrong with the West coast of Florida

[cornelis 816]

Everybody is talking and writing about the East coast of Florida . The 1715 fleet is to my opinion over exhausted . The fleets from Havana sailing up to the strait of Florida mostly were lucky and had clear sailing through that strait . But ..... how about the narrow misses . The Atocha was one of these narrow misses . She did not quite make it through the straits . Look at where she was wrecked and you can understand my reasoning . There were some ships that were blown a little to the West of the strait of Florida . To the left of the Marquesas keys . Some have been sunk there or have been wrecked . Nobody knows what happened because the survivors all were drowned or made it ashore but were killed by the natives that inhabited the coast at that time . So.... no reports ever reached the Spanish government . And than .... there is another source of wrecks. Those ships that came from central America and sailed the Gulf of Mexico , passed the Padre Islands and further toward the Florida Keys to sail directly to Spain through the Straits or were scheduled to go to Havana . So in general that West side of Florida could be as rich in shipwrecks as the East coast. I did try to salvage a wreck in the area of Cedar Keys but something went quite wrong there . I did find a wreck there and there was quite a bit of gold and silver on her . Some agreements with people from Texas made me loose everything . So much for trusting people that have a nice story . This is just my story . Cornelius

 

[LM]

I can't wait to get out there... It's a truly fascinating area. My guess would be the limited interest comes from the fact that one can get a sublease from the Fishers on the east coast sites, whereas anything discovered on the West coast would be SOL for legal salvage, since apparently, the state doesn't issue permits anymore.

Another area that doesn't seem to get much chatter (on here, anyway) is the Chesapeake Bay. I had a chance to do some touring of the more remote parts of the lower Eastern Shore of Maryland after Hurricane Isabel hit in 2003. That region is supposed to be old-wreck-central and in its heyday, Ground 0 for any number of pirates, including Teach.

I guess the east coast of FL gets all the chatter because of treasure ship activity, but I'd guess some of the historic wrecks in the Chesapeake bay are probably very significant.

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Cornelius, what year was that wreck in Cedar Key? I was just wondering if it was part of the Nueva Espana Flota that Pcolaboy was inquiring about.

 

[cornelis 816]

Salvor6 . If you discuss this with John he will explain to you that I cannot give out any information about this wreck . It is a Spanish treasure ship that is all I can say at this moment . Cornelius

 

[godisnum1]

I just have to say Cornelis... it is GOOD to see you back on here!!
Does that wreck pertain to the woman that posted on here some years or so ago... about her and her husband who were from out of town and happened to bump into you in some beach bar?

Bran <><

 

[theseeker]

Cornelius, you are definitely right about the gulf coast of Florida shipwrecks. Many unknown wrecks there for the reasons you listed. I think that many people have interest in the Florida gulf coast wrecks. LSMorgans quote "anything discovered on the West coast would be SOL for legal salvage", legal being the operative word here, says a lot. I'm sure there is a lot of looking going on but until we can get the State of Florida to let loose some salvage leases, who wants to invest the money in doing permitted research and exploration without benefit of return on investment. Fight the State of Florida to force them to let recovery permits then fight the Govt. of Spain who will claim Sovereign Immunity on their merchant/naval vessels. Who has the $$$ to do this?? I would definitely like to participate in a project on the west coast of Florida. Anyone got one going As always my thanks and highest regards for the knowledge you share and the motivation you impart through your postings.

Pete Rosario

 

[cornelis 816]

Godisnum1 . You got it my friend . Quite a nasty story of trust and mistrust and being a succer . Cornelius

 

[cornelis 816]

the seeker . You have to be retired to do some searching on this coastline . You cannot do it in a few weeks . You have to have a steady income and willing to spend a lot of time just searching . You have to have a system . Possibly you may hit the motherload , and then you may not . But ... without spending a lot of time there will be no result whatsoever . I will be there one of these days and hope to be as lucky as in the Cedar Keys area . This time I will not be so stupid as to disclose anything to anybody . It may take me a long time bit hey ... time is all I got . Cornelius

 

[theseeker]

Cornelius, got eight more years till I formally retire from my career and can get full time into it. In the mean time i will research, research and put what time I can into verification.

Regards

 

[White Feather]

Hello from the west coast of Florida. The gulf coast was used by many ships traveling from the northern Mexican coast. It was a longer route but considered safer to keep the land to your port side than to cut out across open water to Cuba from places like Tampico. Ships would run the same chance of running into hurricanes during the voyage but considered being near shore safer. Ships still met undesirable consequences. To carry treasure to Havana where it would be transferred to the larger treasure ships was just as dangerous. Navigation mistakes were the norm for the time period. Shallow water during a storm could rip the bottom out of a ship in seconds. Swimming a mile or two to shore is hard no matter how good of a swimmer you are. Try it with gold chains, coins or gold bars in your pockets. So, why wouldn't there be lost treasure along the entire Gulf Coast? The Big Bend area is very shallow. A storm driving up from the south would be disastrous to a ship drawing 10 to 15 feet of water. It would be smashed to bits many miles before making landfall.

We are getting ready to head out on just such a hunt. The west coast is huge. From the Alabama line to the Keys seems to me to be prime Real estate for treasure hunting. We will be leaving from the Caloosahatchee River and checking areas along the coast. As for the Chesapeake, I have worked the Bay for many years. We are heading up there in the spring. I remember the Nor'easter and bitter winters on the bay. In 76 the lower bay froze over and ice breakers had to be called in for us to be able to get in and out of Cape Charles Harbor. in the 80's we had to cut our wooden boats out of the ice in Little Creek. No Thanks, I'll wait for spring to head up and turn south again when it starts cooling off in October. With over 2000 documented wrecks in the Chesapeake it surly is prime wreck diving. Hundreds of anchorages line the shores and bays along it's coastline. You could spend years running the rivers, coves and bays and never see it all.

My to-do list is down to about a dozen items until we are ready to head out. Wintering along the Florida coast and into the Keys until the end of March and then a slow cruise up the ICW to the Chesapeake. It doesn't get much better.

 

[godisnum1]

Godisnum1 . You got it my friend . Quite a nasty story of trust and mistrust and being a succer . Cornelius

That is quite unfortunate and sad... I had a feeling something was off with the story, though it was fascinating to read!! I wish I would have saved it just to read over (for motivation), but then it was removed before I got the chance. I've been better about making digital copies of articles and such ever since.

Good thing I believe our coast is more laden in and out of the water than the famous east coast.

Bran <><

 

[pcolaboy]

Cornelius my friend....I'm glad you posted this. I've posted this same question several times but didn't receive much interest. I would like to add some background information that may get some wheels turning.

From everything I've read, the outbound Flota de Nueva Espana to Havana would head north out of Veracruz hugging the coast until they roughly reached 28 degrees of lattitude and would then turn eastward across the gulf until roughly reaching 82 degrees longitude and would then turn south. The northern leg of the journey placed the path approximately 150 miles of Pensacola and only 100 miles south of Cape San Blas further to the east.

I've often imagined that ships in trouble would quickly search for the nearest deep water harbor along this portion of the journey. The only deepwater harbor on the northern leg would have been Pensacola Bay with an average of 22' over the bar and an average of 40-50' within the bay. However, as we all know, shoals and characteristics of inlets change throughout the years and there were many ships wrecked attempting to breach the bar whether due to bad navigation or to inhibited maneuverability due to weather.

In 1540, Pensacola Bay was charted by Francisco Maldonado while trying to resupply Hernando de Soto's expedition. Maldonado spent a year waiting in the bay for word from him that never came. After the failed colonization attempt of Pensacola by Tristan de Luna from 1559-1561 there was no European presence in this area until 1698. During that 130 year time period, there were reports of pirate operations based all over the northern gulf coast to prey on the Flota de Nueva Espana fleet as it made it's outward journey to Havana.

 

[LM]

I'm heading down this summer to my property by Crystal River. I was thinking about at least running a side-scan over some areas that get shallow, fast, and possibly learning how to drag a mag, too.

Been throttling through naut charts recently and it doesn't take a genius to see why that area would be murder on the big ships running a coast-hugging bearing who ran into a storm and lost control while trying to reach safe portage in 'Baya de Spirito Santo'

 

[DennisB]

now you guys are starting to talk my language.


Dennis

 

[comfortably numb]

Well, in my humble opinion, I think all of you should concentrate on the east coast with the 1715 fleet. And, I with having nothing else to do will continue searching over here on the mud coast. And if I find anything I will let you know

White Feather, If you come by Crystal River. Stop in and give us a call.

 

[DennisB]

yeah, right numb. lolol

Dennis

 

[fladiverdown]

Once again the Tnet posters amaze me with their knowledge and generosity in taking the time to share it. How could we as a treasure hunting community mobilize and "lobby" the state for a more sane policy in regards to this subject? I am willing to invest time into a project of this sort.

HH

Black Bart

 

[OldGold74]

That is an incredible aerial photo shot, when coming to the US from the Caribbean the best part of the trip for me is going over the Bahamas and looking down and then as you head up to Miami. Hard to understand why more divers in the US have not gone after this area. Good luck Cornelius.

 

[Rogue Pirate]

Old Gold, I love diving and finding shipwrecks in the Bahamas. RP

 

[cornelis 816]

RP . So .... the West coast of Florida would be the wrong place for you . Glad we got that straightened out ! Cornelius